More and better miracles than Jesus

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SEG
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by SEG » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:19 pm

Claire wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:38 am
When a person can reason, and they understand right from wrong, they're responsible for their soul.
So profoundly mentally ill people are not responsible for their soul (whatever that means)? Some people that have a lacking in compassion as psychopaths aren't responsible either?
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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SEG
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by SEG » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:32 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:35 am
Babies that die go to Heaven whether they have been baptized or not. Water baptism is not a requirement for salvation.
John 3:5, NIV: "Jesus answered, 'Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit." ... John 3:5, KJV: "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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SEG
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by SEG » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:36 pm

Claire wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:29 am
SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:There's never been a baby in Hell because they don't go there.
How do you know that for certain?
I don't doubt it because it makes sense.
It didn't make sense to Bishop St. Fulgentius, who Catholics like you revere as a Christian saint.
Hold most firmly and never doubt that, not only adults with the use of reason but also children who either begin to live in the womb of their mothers and who die there or, already born from their mothers, pass from this world without the Sacrament of Holy Baptism, which is given in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, must be punished with the endless penalty of eternal fire. Even if they have no sin from their own actions, still, by their carnal conception and birth, they have contracted the damnation of Original Sin."
—Bishop St. Fulgentius
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Chapabel
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by Chapabel » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:22 pm

SEG wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:32 pm
Chapabel wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:35 am
Babies that die go to Heaven whether they have been baptized or not. Water baptism is not a requirement for salvation.
John 3:5, NIV: "Jesus answered, 'Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit." ... John 3:5, KJV: "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
This verse has caused some confusion due to its translation. Some scholars have said the water represents the physical birth of a person because while in the womb we are surrounded by water. Others have suggested the word water is symbolic of the Word of God such as in Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. However the easiest explanation is a translation error. In the phrase "water and of the Spirit" the word translated "and" is the Greek word "καί". This word is used over 5,000 times in the NT. It is most commonly translated as "and". However, it is also translated as the word "even" 108 times. Also, in the original, the word "of" is not included. It was added for clarity, however, if the phrase had been translated correctly it would not have been needed. The most probable translation should have been: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water even the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

As evidence that water baptism is not a requirement for salvation, we need only look at the repentant thief on the cross. He asks Jesus to remember him when Christ came into his kingdom. Jesus replied that the thief would be with Him in Paradise that very day. There is no record that the Roman guards allowed this thief to come down from his cross, get baptized, then climb back onto the cross and finish dying. Nor is that even logical. So it is obvious water baptism is not a requirement for salvation.
Last edited by Chapabel on Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Chapabel
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by Chapabel » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:24 pm

SEG wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:36 pm

It didn't make sense to Bishop St. Fulgentius, who Catholics like you revere as a Christian saint.
Hold most firmly and never doubt that, not only adults with the use of reason but also children who either begin to live in the womb of their mothers and who die there or, already born from their mothers, pass from this world without the Sacrament of Holy Baptism, which is given in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, must be punished with the endless penalty of eternal fire. Even if they have no sin from their own actions, still, by their carnal conception and birth, they have contracted the damnation of Original Sin."
—Bishop St. Fulgentius
Perfect example of Catholic heresy.

Claire
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by Claire » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:15 pm

Claire wrote:
SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:There's never been a baby in Hell because they don't go there.
How do you know that for certain?
I don't doubt it because it makes sense.
Chapabel wrote:
SEG wrote:It didn't make sense to Bishop St. Fulgentius, who Catholics like you revere as a Christian saint.
Hold most firmly and never doubt that, not only adults with the use of reason but also children who either begin to live in the womb of their mothers and who die there or, already born from their mothers, pass from this world without the Sacrament of Holy Baptism, which is given in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, must be punished with the endless penalty of eternal fire. Even if they have no sin from their own actions, still, by their carnal conception and birth, they have contracted the damnation of Original Sin." —Bishop St. Fulgentius
Perfect example of Catholic heresy.
The truth is there's never been a baby in Hell, and never will be for reasons explained, and there's going to be Catholics who believe and don't believe that to be true. And, St. Fulgentius's sacramental system has been greatly neglected in Catholicism. Just because he's considered a Saint doesn't mean we all have to automatically believe he's right.

And, the title "Saint" is used to distinguish and recognize people who've reached a certain spiritual level, or their current status in society would bring more attention to God's word through that person, etc, i.e Joseph of Nazareth, the apostles, and others throughout history. No, we don't worship them.

Claire
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by Claire » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:56 am

Claire wrote:
SEG wrote:When a person can reason, and they understand right from wrong, they're responsible for their soul.
So profoundly mentally ill people are not responsible for their soul (whatever that means)? Some people that have a lacking in compassion as psychopaths aren't responsible either?
What I mean by "responsible for your soul" is that your actions affect your soul, and therefore you're responsible for it, and that applies to all. But, those who know what's truly right and wrong, and willfully do what's wrong anyway, are held more accountable than others. No human being is fully capable of understanding or knowing the moral capacity, etc, of another person. Only God is, and this is why judgment is left to Him, and not any human being.

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SEG
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by SEG » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:04 pm

Claire wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:56 am
Only God is, and this is why judgment is left to Him, and not any human being.
What if I judge God as a corrupt being and sentence him to hell? I may have awesome powers that no-one knows except me.
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

Claire
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by Claire » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:11 pm

SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:What I mean by "responsible for your soul" is that your actions affect your soul, and therefore you're responsible for it, and that applies to all. But, those who know what's truly right and wrong, and willfully do what's wrong anyway, are held more accountable than others. No human being is fully capable of understanding or knowing the moral capacity, etc, of another person. Only God is, and this is why judgment is left to Him, and not any human being.
What if I judge God as a corrupt being and sentence him to hell? I may have awesome powers that no-one knows except me.
Since you're just being silly now I guess we're done here.

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SEG
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by SEG » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:30 pm

Claire wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:11 pm
SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:What I mean by "responsible for your soul" is that your actions affect your soul, and therefore you're responsible for it, and that applies to all. But, those who know what's truly right and wrong, and willfully do what's wrong anyway, are held more accountable than others. No human being is fully capable of understanding or knowing the moral capacity, etc, of another person. Only God is, and this is why judgment is left to Him, and not any human being.
What if I judge God as a corrupt being and sentence him to hell? I may have awesome powers that no-one knows except me.
Since you're just being silly now I guess we're done here.
Only as silly as believing that a god could do that to me, but yeah.
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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