More and better miracles than Jesus

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Claire
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by Claire » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:23 am

Chapabel wrote:
Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:The difference between Ehrman and myself is that at no point in my backslidden condition did I ever renounce my faith in Christ. I never doubted God’s existence nor my salvation. I knew I was a child of God even though I was not living like one. Ehrman has totally renounced his relationship with Christ which is the evidence that he never knew Christ to begin with. The Bible clearly teaches that those who are saved are kept by God. There is no way a born again believer can ever be unborn. If you were a born again believer you would understand this precept. But like Ehrman you cannot give testimony of ever being born again.
So, if an individual is born-again, they are guaranteed to go to Heaven, even if they willfully disobey God for the remainder of their lives, as long as they don't doubt God's existence and one's salvation. Well, that renders repentance unnecessary.

You've also said,

"True saving faith will manifest good work"

"Anyone can go around saying they are a born-again, blood-washed believer. But if they have no accompanying works to validate their claim, their faith is dead and not real"

"Works are the evidence, the proof, the testimony of salvation. That's all. Works come after salvation. After, not before...AFTER. Not during...AFTER."

You say sincere Faith in God is what makes one saved, and that good works come after becoming saved. That means a person may go through the ritual of becoming born-again, but its only after by their works can others know if they were truly born-again. If they weren't, then it's because bad works, or lack of good works, reflect insincere Faith in God, meaning they never were born again, and therefore makes works what a person's salvation or not is based off, which you deny is the case...

According to those beliefs of yours, during your "backslidden condition" where you willfully chose to leave God, and chose a life of "living like the devil", while still knowing God existed, you were not producing works that reflect a true saving faith, so you wouldn't be considered a child of God. Yet, you claim to have maintained your salvation, and title "child of God" because you still had Faith in God, and didn't doubt your salvation, during that period of your life...

Another time you've said,

"Anybody can do good works. It does not take the power of God to be nice and help people. That's why good works do not contribute to salvation".

If you haven't caught on to what the problem is, the Catch-22 is this:

You say true saving Faith manifests good works, but because anyone can do good works, good works don't contribute to salvation, even though being saved leads to it. And, as long as a person doesn't doubt the existence of God, or their salvation, they can do bad works without needing to repent, and still maintain their salvation. Yet, it's good works that reveal a true saving faith, but as long as a person doesn't doubt the existence of God, or their salvation, they can do bad works without needing to repent, and still maintain their salvation. Yet, it's good works that reveal a true saving Faith, but as long as a person doesn't doubt the existence of God, or their salvation, they can do bad works without needing to repent, and still maintain their salvation. Yet,...

You see where I'm going?

That's your carousel of salvation. In order to stop the bleed of contradiction, you try and control it by taking Bible verses out of context, i.e. John 10:28-29/Romans 8:38-39, etc, but you're still unsuccessful.

Also, once I asked you "...how can you tell the difference between who's saved and who's not, other than asking them if they're saved?", and you replied, "You can't tell the difference. That is the Lord's responsibility", yet here you are taking the responsibility upon yourself to say,

"Ehrman was never a Christian to begin with"
This entire senseless rambling of yours reveals your unfamiliarity with God’s grace.
Those ramblings are a mirror of your beliefs.

And, you're 100% correct, they're senseless.
Last edited by Claire on Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:27 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Chapabel
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by Chapabel » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:56 am

Claire wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:23 am


Those ramblings are a mirror of your beliefs.

And, you're 100% correct, they're senseless.
No Claire, your ramblings are a mirror of your ignorance or stupidity; I honestly don’t know which. Your inability to comprehend the most simple of Biblical doctrines is amazing and frustrating. And again, I regret engaging in conversation with you. It is so much better to ignore your lunacy.

Claire
Posts: 1230
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:25 am

Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by Claire » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:12 am

Chapabel wrote:
Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:This entire senseless rambling of yours reveals your unfamiliarity with God’s grace.
Those ramblings are a mirror of your beliefs.

And, you're 100% correct, they're senseless.
Your inability to comprehend the most simple of Biblical doctrines is amazing and frustrating. And again, I regret engaging in conversation with you. It is so much better to ignore your lunacy.
No need to get defensive with me.

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SEG
Posts: 1947
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by SEG » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:09 am

Chapabel wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:56 am
And again, I regret engaging in conversation with you. It is so much better to ignore your lunacy.
Careful Chappy. If you go first, you may have to get someone like Claire to pray for your cleansing fire in Purgatory.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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Chapabel
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Location: Tennessee

Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by Chapabel » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:03 pm

SEG wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:09 am
Chapabel wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:56 am
And again, I regret engaging in conversation with you. It is so much better to ignore your lunacy.
Careful Chappy. If you go first, you may have to get someone like Claire to pray for your cleansing fire in Purgatory.
There is no such place. Purgatory is a fabrication of the Catholic Church.

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SEG
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by SEG » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:41 pm

They should know, they are the largest and oldest. Why don't you follow what they say? Have you no respect for The Pope and His doctrines?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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Chapabel
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Location: Tennessee

Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by Chapabel » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:27 pm

SEG wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:41 pm
They should know, they are the largest and oldest. Why don't you follow what they say? Have you no respect for The Pope and His doctrines?
There is no mention of Purgatory in the Bible. It's a man-made belief with no Biblical support. And no, I don't care much for what the Pope says.

Claire
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by Claire » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:42 am

Chapabel wrote:There is no mention of Purgatory in the Bible.
Chapabel wrote:Purgatory is a fabrication of the Catholic Church.
You won't find the word "Purgatory" in the Bible, but there's this for example:

"And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins". (2 Maccabees 12:43-46)

Such a practice presupposes a place such as Purgatory, since those in Heaven wouldn’t need help, and those in Hell are beyond it. Purgatory is a temporary dwelling place for lightly guilty souls, who already Heaven bound, died in further need of reaching perfected charity. The prayers from those on Earth help to decrease the amount of expiation needed for them to reach that point, and then they become blessed souls, ready to join others in Heaven.

There's a placed called Limbo, and after the fall of Adam and Eve, Heaven was closed off to humans. So, from then up until Jesus's resurrection, the just souls who died, and not needing to go to Purgatory, went to Limbo, awaiting the coming of Jesus. After He died, resurrected, and ascended to Heaven, He opened the gates, taking with Him all the just souls who'd been awaiting Him in Limbo, as well as the souls who were ready to leave Purgatory. Since Jesus's resurrection, Limbo is no longer needed, so just souls who die go straight to Heaven, and the lightly guilty souls go to Purgatory before Heaven.

The mortally guilty souls, or damned souls, go to Hell.

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SEG
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Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by SEG » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:54 am

Claire wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:42 am
Chapabel wrote:There is no mention of Purgatory in the Bible.
Chapabel wrote:Purgatory is a fabrication of the Catholic Church.
You won't find the word "Purgatory" in the Bible, but there's this for example:

"And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins". (2 Maccabees 12:43-46)

Such a practice presupposes a place such as Purgatory, since those in Heaven wouldn’t need help, and those in Hell are beyond it. Purgatory is a temporary dwelling place for lightly guilty souls, who already Heaven bound, died in further need of reaching perfected charity. The prayers from those on Earth help to decrease the amount of expiation needed for them to reach that point, and then they become blessed souls, ready to join others in Heaven.

There's a placed called Limbo, and after the fall of Adam and Eve, Heaven was closed off to humans. So, from then up until Jesus's resurrection, the just souls who died, and not needing to go to Purgatory, went to Limbo, awaiting the coming of Jesus. After He died, resurrected, and ascended to Heaven, He opened the gates, taking with Him all the just souls who'd been awaiting Him in Limbo, as well as the souls who were ready to leave Purgatory. Since Jesus's resurrection, Limbo is no longer needed, so just souls who die go straight to Heaven, and the lightly guilty souls go to Purgatory before Heaven.

The mortally guilty souls, or damned souls, go to Hell.
So what happens to all the unbaptised babies that died and didn't get a chance to be baptised?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Claire
Posts: 1230
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:25 am

Re: More and better miracles than Jesus

Post by Claire » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:40 am

SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:There is no mention of Purgatory in the Bible.
You won't find the word "Purgatory" in the Bible, but there's this for example:

"And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins". (2 Maccabees 12:43-46)

Such a practice presupposes a place such as Purgatory, since those in Heaven wouldn’t need help, and those in Hell are beyond it. Purgatory is a temporary dwelling place for lightly guilty souls, who already Heaven bound, died in further need of reaching perfected charity. The prayers from those on Earth help to decrease the amount of expiation needed for them to reach that point, and then they become blessed souls, ready to join others in Heaven.

There's a placed called Limbo, and after the fall of Adam and Eve, Heaven was closed off to humans. So, from then up until Jesus's resurrection, the just souls who died, and not needing to go to Purgatory, went to Limbo, awaiting the coming of Jesus. After He died, resurrected, and ascended to Heaven, He opened the gates, taking with Him all the just souls who'd been awaiting Him in Limbo, as well as the souls who were ready to leave Purgatory. Since Jesus's resurrection, Limbo is no longer needed, so just souls who die go straight to Heaven, and the lightly guilty souls go to Purgatory before Heaven.

The mortally guilty souls, or damned souls, go to Hell.
So what happens to all the unbaptised babies that died and didn't get a chance to be baptised?
They still go to Heaven.

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