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Re: Was St Paul a Closet Gay?

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:06 pm
by Moonwood the Hare
SEG wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:01 pm
Does anyone know any verse that had Paul or even Jesus desiring/liking any woman? This is a serious question.
Read the gospels. One of the most remarkable things about them is the number of relationships Jesus formed with women. It seems odd that he would have formed these relationships with people he did not like. I won't give you all the references because you are quite capable of finding these for yourself.

Re: Was St Paul a Closet Gay?

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:46 pm
by SEG
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:06 pm
SEG wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:01 pm
Does anyone know any verse that had Paul or even Jesus desiring/liking any woman? This is a serious question.
Read the gospels. One of the most remarkable things about them is the number of relationships Jesus formed with women. It seems odd that he would have formed these relationships with people he did not like. I won't give you all the references because you are quite capable of finding these for yourself.
Could you give just one example each of Paul and Jesus desiring women? I really don't know of any.

Re: Was St Paul a Closet Gay?

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:56 pm
by Moonwood the Hare
SEG wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:46 pm
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:06 pm
SEG wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:01 pm
Does anyone know any verse that had Paul or even Jesus desiring/liking any woman? This is a serious question.
Read the gospels. One of the most remarkable things about them is the number of relationships Jesus formed with women. It seems odd that he would have formed these relationships with people he did not like. I won't give you all the references because you are quite capable of finding these for yourself.
Could you give just one example each of Paul and Jesus desiring women? I really don't know of any.
It was the part about liking them I was responding to. Unless you think a man can only like women if he desires them sexually then there is no reason for saying if a person does desire women he does not like them. It seems flagrantly misogynistic to me.

Re: Was St Paul a Closet Gay?

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:55 pm
by SEG
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:56 pm
SEG wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:46 pm
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:06 pm

Read the gospels. One of the most remarkable things about them is the number of relationships Jesus formed with women. It seems odd that he would have formed these relationships with people he did not like. I won't give you all the references because you are quite capable of finding these for yourself.
Could you give just one example each of Paul and Jesus desiring women? I really don't know of any.
It was the part about liking them I was responding to. Unless you think a man can only like women if he desires them sexually then there is no reason for saying if a person does desire women he does not like them. It seems flagrantly misogynistic to me.
Ok, let's break this into two parts, as both parts are important and this will stop you attacking a position that I didn't take.

1· Could you give just one example each of Paul and Jesus desiring women?

2· Could you give just one example each of Paul and Jesus liking women?

Re: Was St Paul a Closet Gay?

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:10 pm
by Moonwood the Hare
SEG wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:55 pm
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:56 pm
SEG wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:46 pm

Could you give just one example each of Paul and Jesus desiring women? I really don't know of any.
It was the part about liking them I was responding to. Unless you think a man can only like women if he desires them sexually then there is no reason for saying if a person does desire women he does not like them. It seems flagrantly misogynistic to me.
Ok, let's break this into two parts, as both parts are important and this will stop you attacking a position that I didn't take.

1· Could you give just one example each of Paul and Jesus desiring women?

2· Could you give just one example each of Paul and Jesus liking women?
No. There areplenty of examples of Jesus relating to women, fewer of Paul. No discussion of their sexual desires. If you want to use the latter as part of a very silly argument from silence, feel free.

Re: Was St Paul a Closet Gay?

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:54 pm
by SEG
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:10 pm
SEG wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:55 pm
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:56 pm

It was the part about liking them I was responding to. Unless you think a man can only like women if he desires them sexually then there is no reason for saying if a person does desire women he does not like them. It seems flagrantly misogynistic to me.
Ok, let's break this into two parts, as both parts are important and this will stop you attacking a position that I didn't take.

1· Could you give just one example each of Paul and Jesus desiring women?

2· Could you give just one example each of Paul and Jesus liking women?
No. There areplenty of examples of Jesus relating to women, fewer of Paul. No discussion of their sexual desires. If you want to use the latter as part of a very silly argument from silence, feel free.
IOW, there are NONE of Jesus or Paul actually LIKING women, let alone desiring them and my point stands. Sure, there may be circumstances where they are with women, but nothing to show that they enjoy their company. I'm sure that if there was a glimmer of anything like that, you would gleefully present it. On the other hand both Paul and Jesus show a preference for the company of men, both never married, disdain women and profess their love for men. Draw your own conclusions.

Re: Was St Paul a Closet Gay?

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:31 pm
by Moonwood the Hare
SEG wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:54 pm
IOW, there are NONE of Jesus or Paul actually LIKING women, let alone desiring them and my point stands. Sure, there may be circumstances where they are with women, but nothing to show that they enjoy their company. I'm sure that if there was a glimmer of anything like that, you would gleefully present it. On the other hand both Paul and Jesus show a preference for the company of men, both never married, disdain women and profess their love for men. Draw your own conclusions.
Fortunately Wikipedia has done the work for me
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus%27_ ... s_to_women
If you can read this and conclude that Jesus did not like women then I do not think anything could persuade you.

Re: Was St Paul a Closet Gay?

Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:34 am
by SEG
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:31 pm
SEG wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:54 pm
IOW, there are NONE of Jesus or Paul actually LIKING women, let alone desiring them and my point stands. Sure, there may be circumstances where they are with women, but nothing to show that they enjoy their company. I'm sure that if there was a glimmer of anything like that, you would gleefully present it. On the other hand both Paul and Jesus show a preference for the company of men, both never married, disdain women and profess their love for men. Draw your own conclusions.
Fortunately Wikipedia has done the work for me
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus%27_ ... s_to_women
If you can read this and conclude that Jesus did not like women then I do not think anything could persuade you.
Elton John, Boy George and Julian Clary weren't known for disgracing, belittling, reproaching, or stereotyping women either. Yet none of them were known for liking women. All of them prefer to be with men, just like Jesus and Paul.

Re: Was St Paul a Closet Gay?

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:17 pm
by Moonwood the Hare
SEG wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:34 am
Elton John, Boy George and Julian Clary weren't known for disgracing, belittling, reproaching, or stereotyping women either. Yet none of them were known for liking women. All of them prefer to be with men, just like Jesus and Paul.
I don't know enough about their private lives. Though Elton seems to have a lot of female friends and I think Boy George has. and this is the point you are missing. You are using dislike of females as an indicator of homosexuality and there are some gay men who dislike women and lots who like women. Similarly there are straight men who dislike women. I remember seeing a TV program several years ago called living with the enemy where they would get people to live with someone they disagreed with and one program had two guys who were self confessed homophobes living with two gay men. One of the things the gay men noted was how disparaging the straight men were towards women.

Jesus was known for hanging out with prostitutes, he let a woman wipe his feet with her hair, he seems to have been liked by women like Mary Magdalene and Mary of Bethany. It is possible that he does all this through gritted teeth hating every minute of it but it does not seem likely to me.

Re: Was St Paul a Closet Gay?

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:10 pm
by SEG
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:17 pm
Jesus was known for hanging out with prostitutes
Really? How do you know that?