God and Abraham Exchange Lies and Mentally Abuse Isaac

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Moonwood the Hare
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Re: God and Abraham Exchange Lies and Mentally Abuse Isaac

Post by Moonwood the Hare » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:25 pm

searchengineguy wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:05 am
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:17 pm
I know you have become interested in Christian existentialism (unless you are referencing books without being aware of their content and context) so would it be interesting to explore Kierkegaard's views on this?
No not atm thanks, I am tied up with books by Paul Tillich, Rudolf Bultmann, and Rollo May.

As if!
You see my point though. Often when you reference a book you are really just referening the title; you have not read it and have no idea what the author is actually saying. It's as if your entire argument at these moments is 'look, here's a writer who uses the word myth in relation to the Bible so the Bible must be mythical, by which I mean false, even though these writers were not using the word myth in that sense'. Now what Kierkegaard did was to take this passage and offer a criticism of people who had made the kind of critique you are offering. So he might be worth looking at.

searchengineguy
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Re: God and Abraham Exchange Lies and Mentally Abuse Isaac

Post by searchengineguy » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:39 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:10 pm
searchengineguy wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:37 pm
It doesn't matter how old he was. Just because the Bible doesn't mention that he didn't plead for his life or was terrified doesn't mean that he didn't react that way. That's what normal people do and I am alarmed that you can't see this. Seek help,son. Put down your Bible and call 911·
Again, you are making an entire argument based on nothing speculation. There is no indication Isaac was frightened at all. Your argument from silence is a recognized fallacy. You claim to know what "normal" people do, but what is normal to you is obscene to someone like me. Normal is subjective. So again, you are left with no support for your opinion. Your argument fails. Game, set and match.
This is getting ridiculous. Normal people get frightened when their life is threatened. The evidence in your 'holy' book is that he was threatened by being knifed and burned to death. To say that he wasn't frightened is also evidence that you are now making up any feeble excuse to salvage the horror of a parent attempting to murder his son. Normal people don't try and excuse horrific acts of violence. Get help.
“One would go mad if one took the Bible seriously; but to take it seriously one must be already mad.”
Aleister Crowley

searchengineguy
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Re: God and Abraham Exchange Lies and Mentally Abuse Isaac

Post by searchengineguy » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:43 pm

Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:25 pm
searchengineguy wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:05 am
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:17 pm
I know you have become interested in Christian existentialism (unless you are referencing books without being aware of their content and context) so would it be interesting to explore Kierkegaard's views on this?
No not atm thanks, I am tied up with books by Paul Tillich, Rudolf Bultmann, and Rollo May.

As if!
You see my point though. Often when you reference a book you are really just referening the title; you have not read it and have no idea what the author is actually saying. It's as if your entire argument at these moments is 'look, here's a writer who uses the word myth in relation to the Bible so the Bible must be mythical, by which I mean false, even though these writers were not using the word myth in that sense'. Now what Kierkegaard did was to take this passage and offer a criticism of people who had made the kind of critique you are offering. So he might be worth looking at.
Well, if you have read it, please outline the main points so that we can discuss them here.
“One would go mad if one took the Bible seriously; but to take it seriously one must be already mad.”
Aleister Crowley

searchengineguy
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Re: God and Abraham Exchange Lies and Mentally Abuse Isaac

Post by searchengineguy » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:07 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:15 pm
searchengineguy wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:47 pm
If you know God's nature so well, what was he testing him for? To see whether he would do ANYTHING that God asked him to do without question because his love and commitment was so strong? Even if it was to lie to his son, knife and burn him to death? Normally when I ask you a question about this you would say it isn't in his nature to do such a thing and he would recognise that fact. But now him ordering human sacrifice or being ok with it is NOT outside his nature. You may remember that God also didn't have a problem with Jephtha committing human sacrifice with his own daughter in the Book of Judges, so maybe it IS in his nature. Maybe your god DOES love human sacrifice.
He was testing his faith in God's promise. Abraham never lied to Isaac BTW. That's another falsehood you've put out there.

God did ask Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, but He didn't allow him to go through with it did He? Therefore God did not sanction human sacrifice. How do you know God had no problem with Jeptha sacrificing his daughter? Book, chapter and verse please. As far as Jeptha's daughter, did God ask Jeptha to sacrifice her? No. Again, God does not condone any human sacrifice. So there you are again standing there with no evidence at all.
If you order a hit man to murder your wife, then later call it off for whatever reason, you are still guilty of attempted murder. The charge stands and I find your god guilty as hell. If you try and excuse this horrific act by saying God is not liable to any of man's laws, this means that you think that your God can order you to commit any horrific act and you are fine with that because, well he's God. That's just insane. Abraham lied when he consorted with God and conspired with him to deceive his second son (whom God calls his only son)
"And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together."
He knew God wasn't going to provide a lamb for a burnt offering, he had just agreed with God to murder him! You just can't bring yourself to admit that both God and Abraham lied, can you? Even when the evidence is placed right in front of you, you try and deny it. Get help before it's too late son!
“One would go mad if one took the Bible seriously; but to take it seriously one must be already mad.”
Aleister Crowley

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Chapabel
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Re: God and Abraham Exchange Lies and Mentally Abuse Isaac

Post by Chapabel » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:09 pm

searchengineguy wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:39 pm
This is getting ridiculous. Normal people get frightened when their life is threatened. The evidence in your 'holy' book is that he was threatened by being knifed and burned to death. To say that he wasn't frightened is also evidence that you are now making up any feeble excuse to salvage the horror of a parent attempting to murder his son. Normal people don't try and excuse horrific acts of violence. Get help.
You’re right this is ridiculous. You will never comprehend the strength we have from our faith in God. There was no horror in either Abraham or Isaac. Isaac did not protest or resist because of his faith. This is totally foreign to you so you claim it isn’t normal. You are trying to project your emotions to others. You are trying to make others react the way you would. Then you condemn anyone who does not react the way you think is normal. It’s not that I need help...it’s that you need Jesus.

searchengineguy
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Re: God and Abraham Exchange Lies and Mentally Abuse Isaac

Post by searchengineguy » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:13 pm

Not if he makes me like you who meekly accepts lies from authority figures and would murder their children because imaginary gods are ordering it.
“One would go mad if one took the Bible seriously; but to take it seriously one must be already mad.”
Aleister Crowley

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Chapabel
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Re: God and Abraham Exchange Lies and Mentally Abuse Isaac

Post by Chapabel » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:18 pm

searchengineguy wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:07 pm
Chapabel wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:15 pm
searchengineguy wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:47 pm
If you know God's nature so well, what was he testing him for? To see whether he would do ANYTHING that God asked him to do without question because his love and commitment was so strong? Even if it was to lie to his son, knife and burn him to death? Normally when I ask you a question about this you would say it isn't in his nature to do such a thing and he would recognise that fact. But now him ordering human sacrifice or being ok with it is NOT outside his nature. You may remember that God also didn't have a problem with Jephtha committing human sacrifice with his own daughter in the Book of Judges, so maybe it IS in his nature. Maybe your god DOES love human sacrifice.
He was testing his faith in God's promise. Abraham never lied to Isaac BTW. That's another falsehood you've put out there.

God did ask Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, but He didn't allow him to go through with it did He? Therefore God did not sanction human sacrifice. How do you know God had no problem with Jeptha sacrificing his daughter? Book, chapter and verse please. As far as Jeptha's daughter, did God ask Jeptha to sacrifice her? No. Again, God does not condone any human sacrifice. So there you are again standing there with no evidence at all.
If you order a hit man to murder your wife, then later call it off for whatever reason, you are still guilty of attempted murder. The charge stands and I find your god guilty as hell. If you try and excuse this horrific act by saying God is not liable to any of man's laws, this means that you think that your God can order you to commit any horrific act and you are fine with that because, well he's God. That's just insane. Abraham lied when he consorted with God and conspired with him to deceive his second son (whom God calls his only son)
"And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together."
He knew God wasn't going to provide a lamb for a burnt offering, he had just agreed with God to murder him! You just can't bring yourself to admit that both God and Abraham lied, can you? Even when the evidence is placed right in front of you, you try and deny it. Get help before it's too late son!
Your animus towards God has totally blinded you and made you impossible to reason with. I have repeatedly shown you how neither God nor Abraham lied to anyone. I have disproven your claim Isaac was mentally abused. I have shown you how God did not sanction human sacrifice, but you flatly reject all the proof. It is you who need help, boy. Only a mentally disturbed person rejects clear, unmistakable evidence. You are every bit as mentally handicapped as Claire. I’m done here due to your pitiful obstinance.

searchengineguy
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Re: God and Abraham Exchange Lies and Mentally Abuse Isaac

Post by searchengineguy » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:24 pm

Would you do it Chappy? If you thought that God had commanded you to deceive your son about going somewhere to do something else, then grab him, bind him up, then knife him and burn him. Would you do it?
“One would go mad if one took the Bible seriously; but to take it seriously one must be already mad.”
Aleister Crowley

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Chapabel
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Re: God and Abraham Exchange Lies and Mentally Abuse Isaac

Post by Chapabel » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:38 pm

God wouldn’t ask me to do that. Abraham and I live in different dispensations. God dealt with different people, in different dispensations, in different ways. Abraham lived in the Dispensation of Promise. Therefore God tested Abraham’s faith in God’s promise to make him a father of many nations. I live in the Dispensation of Grace. I have received the grace of God by faith. You have the opportunity to accept God’s grace, but as of now, you are failing the test of faith.

searchengineguy
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Re: God and Abraham Exchange Lies and Mentally Abuse Isaac

Post by searchengineguy » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:54 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:38 pm
God wouldn’t ask me to do that.
Ok, picture yourself as Abraham. Would you murder your child on God's command in that situation? Have you got the same level of faith as Abraham?
“One would go mad if one took the Bible seriously; but to take it seriously one must be already mad.”
Aleister Crowley

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