What were the earliest mentions of Christianity?

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Moonwood the Hare
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Re: What were the earliest mentions of Christianity?

Post by Moonwood the Hare » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:10 pm

As I said not my field. I think one should be wary of forming opinions on everything under the sun. I think it unlikely we will reach the truth by pooling our ignorance. But I think you would find no serious scholars defending the case that Marcion wrote the gospel of Luke and then some completely unknown figures holding the emerging orthodox position wrote the other synoptic gospels copying from Marcion but adding bits in to make it it less docetic and that finally someone holding this anti-docetic view wrote the most docetic of the canonical gospels, John, to counter docetism! Prima facie it sounds like nonsense. That doesn't mean someone could not make it all seem very plausible.

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SEG
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Re: What were the earliest mentions of Christianity?

Post by SEG » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:39 am

I thought it was strange that none of the Church Fathers mentioned anything about gospels before the appearance of Marcion’s “gospel”. Also there were no polemics against them until after the second century. It's like they didn't make any impact at all for decades after they were written.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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SEG
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Re: What were the earliest mentions of Christianity?

Post by SEG » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:40 am

Btw, cool bunny avatar Moon!
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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Moonwood the Hare
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Re: What were the earliest mentions of Christianity?

Post by Moonwood the Hare » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:44 pm

SEG wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:39 am
I thought it was strange that none of the Church Fathers mentioned anything about gospels before the appearance of Marcion’s “gospel”. Also there were no polemics against them until after the second century. It's like they didn't make any impact at all for decades after they were written.
They maybe don't call them gospels but they do appear to quote from them. Like I say you really need to talk this through with a mainstream scholar. If you want a real counterweight to the stuff you have been reading try John Robinson's Redating the New Testament.

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SEG
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Re: What were the earliest mentions of Christianity?

Post by SEG » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:12 am

Ok thanks. Have you been involved with any other forums?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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Moonwood the Hare
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Re: What were the earliest mentions of Christianity?

Post by Moonwood the Hare » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:45 pm

SEG wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:12 am
Ok thanks. Have you been involved with any other forums?
No. I find argument is addictive but not very fruitful. Online I end up turning into a kind of keyboard warrior and people get very involved on some kind of emotional level but these are compulsive and very limited emotions. It's addictive but not helpful. Now I can see that this is a kind of hobby for you but I don't think it helps you to understand Christians or me to understand atheists because the people we meet online are very partial. People online rarely show vulnerability or true openness to the other because that would be jumped on. It's the nature of the beast and so I should not complain.

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SEG
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Re: What were the earliest mentions of Christianity?

Post by SEG » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:28 am

Yes, that reminds me of that discussion that I had on the old forum with Tim O'Neill. We thrashed it out for about 5 weeks without resolving anything between us. It did make me do more researching before I opened my trap, though. I did have a go on one called The Raving Atheists. They just attacked the Christians (who seemed a little clueless actually) without mercy and I got sick of it.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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SEG
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Re: What were the earliest mentions of Christianity?

Post by SEG » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:31 am

I've got a new question for you Moon. Do you think that Josephus or the Church Father Origen knew of Nazareth?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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Moonwood the Hare
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Re: What were the earliest mentions of Christianity?

Post by Moonwood the Hare » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:36 pm

SEG wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:31 am
I've got a new question for you Moon. Do you think that Josephus or the Church Father Origen knew of Nazareth?
I am just not qualified to answer that. Origen is not a Church Father by the way. He was a very distinguished writer but not one of the Fathers.

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Moonwood the Hare
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Re: What were the earliest mentions of Christianity?

Post by Moonwood the Hare » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:50 pm

SEG wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:28 am
Yes, that reminds me of that discussion that I had on the old forum with Tim O'Neill. We thrashed it out for about 5 weeks without resolving anything between us. It did make me do more researching before I opened my trap, though. I did have a go on one called The Raving Atheists. They just attacked the Christians (who seemed a little clueless actually) without mercy and I got sick of it.
Tim was obviously trying to humiliate you. He knew his stuff but he wanted to make sure you knew he knew' and you didn't. No one likes being treated like they are stupid and ill informed but when the non academic steps into these specialised areas he invariably is ill informed. I personally don't have the eye for detail I would need to be a historian. And you would need to know a vast amount about any era to start judging what is normal or what should be expected.

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