Why Some Christians Need to Lie

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Chapabel
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Chapabel » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:56 pm

SEG wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:24 am

What if Satan is deceiving you? A Christian friend of mine once had a girlfriend named Natasha. He had to dump her, as he discovered her name spelled backwards was Ah, Satan! Speaking of Russian names, here is an article by — Fr. Joseph Gleason who lives in Rostov the Great, Russia https://russian-faith.com/explaining-or ... -why-n1470
So that's your "proof" that God has not preserved His word? Really? Russian Orthodox is very similar to Greek Orthodox. Both of which are derived from Catholicism. It is well known that the Catholic Bible contains 14 books between the OT and NT called the Apocrypha books. These books are not included in our modern Protestant Bibles such as the KVJ, NIV or ESV. However, as a side note, the original 1611 KJV did include the Apocrypha books with a note from the translators that while historically significant, the Apocrypha books were not considered inspired by God. The Apocrypha was removed from the KJV in the 1880's and has been omitted ever since. The Apocrypha books were never considered inspired from God by ancient Hebrew scholars and as a result most non-Catholic denominations reject them as inspired as well.

With that background in mind I researched the link you provided. I was not surprised at all at the claim that there are "missing" books from American Bibles when compared to Russian Bibles. One prophecy that was given in the link as evidence American Bibles are incomplete is found in the Apocrypha book "Wisdom of Solomon". Again, most Christian denominations reject the Apocrypha books as inspired which are included in Catholic, Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox Bibles. The site is somewhat deceptive in claiming these books are not included in "American" Bibles. It's not American Bibles that exclude these books, but non-Catholic and non-Orthodox Bibles.

So how do I know my translation is the correct one? Because it is identical to other Bibles in regards to God's love, grace and His mercy. It exactly aligns with other Orthodox and Catholic Bibles in regards to man's salvation by faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ. While there may be additional books in Catholic and Orthodox Bibles, the like passages agree 100% with my Bible in mankind's need for salvation and how that salvation is obtained. All of these various Bibles teach the virgin birth; they teach the sinless life of Jesus Christ; they all teach the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. They all reflect how our salvation is given as a gift from God that we must receive by faith. Finally, each of these Bibles instruct us in holy living because Jesus will one day return and everyone will be judged.

You have presented this little piece as evidence that God failed to preserve His word. What you have unwittingly done is proven the exact opposite. You see, whether in the KJV, NIV, ESV, Greek Orthodox or Russian Orthodox, God has preserved His word. And with that my friend from down under, I say "Checkmate".

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SEG
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by SEG » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:44 pm

You really need to stop apologising for your god Chappy. Those lack of originals, deleted books and verses, translation errors, scribal errors etc are proof that his words have not been preserved at all. You try and dodge this by saying, "well they are in a general sense, he loves us and stuff". "The missing whole books issue isn't critical, because we found out later that they were apocryphal."

The real reason that they were banned was because they contained too much bat shit crazy stuff, not because they weren't "inspired" by God. I'll stamp this one "Myth Busted".
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Chapabel » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:28 am

SEG wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:44 pm
You really need to stop apologising for your god Chappy. Those lack of originals, deleted books and verses, translation errors, scribal errors etc are proof that his words have not been preserved at all. You try and dodge this by saying, "well they are in a general sense, he loves us and stuff". "The missing whole books issue isn't critical, because we found out later that they were apocryphal."

The real reason that they were banned was because they contained too much bat shit crazy stuff, not because they weren't "inspired" by God. I'll stamp this one "Myth Busted".
Feel free to stamp it whatever you want. The fact remains God has preserved His word and you cannot prove otherwise. Again, Checkmate.

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SEG
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by SEG » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:59 am

Chapabel wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:28 am
Feel free to stamp it whatever you want. The fact remains God has preserved His word and you cannot prove otherwise. Again, Checkmate.
Hardly. You would have had a case if you had an unchanging original book that had no errors, was written in the language that was spoken within that area, had knowledge beyond what was known by ancient men and made sense. Sadly it has not met any of these challenges.
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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SEG
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by SEG » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:51 pm

Plus you never explained how four thousand stables equal forty thousand stables. That horses argument from Dill was a red herring.
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Chapabel » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:05 pm

SEG wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:59 am

Hardly. You would have had a case if you had an unchanging original book that had no errors, was written in the language that was spoken within that area, had knowledge beyond what was known by ancient men and made sense. Sadly it has not met any of these challenges.

Plus you never explained how four thousand stables equal forty thousand stables. That horses argument from Dill was a red herring.
I have a book that has no errors. I've shown you that over and over. You simply don't like the explanations. For example, I've shown you Solomon had 4,000 stalls with 10 horses per stall which comes out to 40,000 horses. You refuse to accept that. The problem lies with your rejection of the truth, and not t=with the truth itself. Now, if you have another supposed error, I'll address it. I believe we've beat these 40,000 dead horses as much as possible.

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SEG
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by SEG » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:42 am

Chapabel wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:05 pm

I have a book that has no errors. I've shown you that over and over. You simply don't like the explanations. For example, I've shown you Solomon had 4,000 stalls with 10 horses per stall which comes out to 40,000 horses. You refuse to accept that. The problem lies with your rejection of the truth, and not t=with the truth itself. Now, if you have another supposed error, I'll address it. I believe we've beat these 40,000 dead horses as much as possible.
Let's forget about the horses and talk about those 4,000 stalls vs 40,000 stalls. Was it 4,000 or 40,000 stalls? Do you accept scribal errors as errors, or does it involve verbal gymnastics to resolve those errors?
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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SEG
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by SEG » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:05 am

This contradiction is in your KJV and others which renders those translations imperfect. The 1,000 later Masoretic Hebrew text is the source of this contradiction, but some Septuagint manuscripts do not make that silly error. Thus we have this contradiction that you tried your best to cover up:
1 Kings 4:26

New International Version
Solomon had four thousand stalls for chariot horses, and twelve thousand horses.

New Living Translation
Solomon had 4,000 stalls for his chariot horses, and he had 12,000 horses.

Berean Study Bible
Solomon had four thousand stalls for his chariot horses and twelve thousand horses.

NET Bible
Solomon had 4,000 stalls for his chariot horses and 12,000 horses.

New Heart English Bible
Solomon had four thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

King James Bible
And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
If you want to get closer to the truth, the earliest documents such as the Septuagint manuscripts in this case would be a better reference. It's a moot point really, as 4,000 stalls should have shown up in the archaeological record or at least mentioned in other sources. If you really believe that 40,000 figure and the twisting that took place to make it fit into your fictitious book, I feel sorry for you. :roll: :roll: :roll:
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Chapabel » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:03 pm

SEG wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:05 am
This contradiction is in your KJV and others which renders those translations imperfect. The 1,000 later Masoretic Hebrew text is the source of this contradiction, but some Septuagint manuscripts do not make that silly error. Thus we have this contradiction that you tried your best to cover up:
1 Kings 4:26

New International Version
Solomon had four thousand stalls for chariot horses, and twelve thousand horses.

New Living Translation
Solomon had 4,000 stalls for his chariot horses, and he had 12,000 horses.

Berean Study Bible
Solomon had four thousand stalls for his chariot horses and twelve thousand horses.

NET Bible
Solomon had 4,000 stalls for his chariot horses and 12,000 horses.

New Heart English Bible
Solomon had four thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

King James Bible
And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
If you want to get closer to the truth, the earliest documents such as the Septuagint manuscripts in this case would be a better reference. It's a moot point really, as 4,000 stalls should have shown up in the archaeological record or at least mentioned in other sources. If you really believe that 40,000 figure and the twisting that took place to make it fit into your fictitious book, I feel sorry for you. :roll: :roll: :roll:
The way you are carrying on about these horses and stalls reminds me of the way Claire goes on and on and on and on and on and on about a topic I have already explained (and you feel sorry for me?). Not that you will comprehend or accept the explanation, but here is another clarification for your supposed contradiction.
Did Solomon have “40,000” or “4,000” stalls in 1 Kings 4:26?
Some translations (e.g. NIV, NLT) change "40,000" to "4,000" in 1 Kings 4:26 due to a perceived scribal error. 2 Chronicles 9:25, which appears to be a parallel account, says "4,000". Along with the KJV, the NKJV, NASB, ESV and HCSB uphold the inspired Hebrew text which says, "40,000".

The two passages describe different types of stalls

1 Kings 4:26 says:
“Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen”.

2 Chronicles 9:25 says:
“Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen”.

The two verses do not contradict because they describe different types of stalls. The stalls in 1 Kings 4:26 were "of horses" which were used for chariots and by horsemen. Nothing in this verse says that these stalls were for the chariots. On the other hand, the stalls in 2 Chronicles 9:25 were for "horses and chariots". Such a stall to house both horses and chariots would not have been as numerous as stalls to house just horses because there is always a smaller ratio of chariots to horses. In fact, 2 Chronicles 1:14 says there were 1,400 chariots. Hence it makes sense that there would be less of these stalls that were capable of storing both horses and chariots.

Whereas 2 Chronicles 9:25 describes the purpose of the stalls (i.e. "stalls for...."), 1 Kings 4:26 describes the purpose of the horses (i.e. "horses for...."). In saying that the purpose of the horses was for Solomon's "chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen" (interpreting the "twelve thousand horsemen" as part of the conjunctive list belonging with "chariots"), 1 Kings 4:26 effectively links the horses to items of which we know the numbers. If these horses were for 1,400 chariots (2 Chronicles 1:14) and 12,000 horsemen, the number of horses would have been considerably large. Even with the conservative assumption of 2 horses per chariot and 1 horse per horseman, the number of horses needed for 1,400 chariots and 12,000 horsemen is 14,800 horses. If there were one horse on reserve (a spare) per every horse on duty, that would already be 29,600 horses. Hence, 40,000 stalls would have been a reasonable number to accommodate this many horses.

In conclusion, there were 40,000 stalls that were for housing horses, and 4,000 stalls that were for storing horses and chariots. The two numbers could be harmonized if each of the 4,000 stalls with the space to house a chariot had 10 subdividing stalls for individual horses.

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SEG
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by SEG » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:05 am

Chapabel wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:03 pm
The way you are carrying on about these horses and stalls reminds me of the way Claire goes on and on and on and on and on and on about a topic I have already explained (and you feel sorry for me?).
You didn't answer if you accept scribal errors as legitimate errors? Look, Chappy, If there were 12,000 horsemen and you have 2 or 3 men per chariot, 4,000 chariots driven by 4,000 horses and stored within 4,000 stalls seems reasonable.

But 40,000 horses housed in 40,000 stalls within 4,000 stalls for only 12,000 horsemen just shouts harmonisation gone crazy or plain desperate.

Compounding the problem, there is zip archaeological evidence for any of this and nothing confirming it in any text outside of the Bible. Solomon himself has very little extra-biblical evidence.
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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