Why Some Christians Need to Lie

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Claire
Posts: 1292
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Claire » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:27 am

Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:Ok, here is scientific evidence that the Bible is correct from Dr. Andrew A. Snelling who holds a PhD in geology from the University of Sydney.
ASTRONOMY: The Bible claims the universe had a beginning. Philosophers and scientists rejected that claim for over two thousand years, but now astronomers believe the universe had a beginning, the so-called big bang (though with a very different time frame).
Stars are innumerable (Genesis 22:17; Jeremiah 33:22)
Stars differ in glory (1 Corinthians 15:41)
Stars follow a predictable pattern (Jeremiah 31:35)
Earth is round, not flat (Isaiah 40:22; Psalm 103:12)
Earth hangs on nothing (not built on pillars) (Job 26:7)
Scientific evidence of a young universe:
1) Spiral galaxies
2) “Missing” supernova remnants
3) Short-lived comets
4) Moon moving away from Earth

ANTHROPOLOGY: The Bible claims that all humans are “one blood” descended from one man and one woman (Acts 17:26; 1 Corinthians 15:45; Genesis 3:20). Some nineteenth-century biologists argued that different races descended from lower animals, but today genetics has verified that there is only one human race.

BIOLOGY: The Bible claims that God created animals “after their kind.” Nineteenth-century biologists argued that animals evolved from other, very different animals, but today biology confirms that creatures reproduce within their own kind.
Blood circulation (Leviticus 17:11)
Scientific evidence of a recent creation:
1) DNA programming for irreducibly complex protein sequences
2) Lack of missing links in the fossil record
3) Dinosaur blood vessels in fossils

GEOLOGY: The Bible claims that God destroyed the earth and the creatures inhabiting it in the worldwide Flood. Nineteenth-century geologists argued that rock layers and the fossils found in them were formed as sediments were deposited slowly, but today geology confirms that many rock layers were deposited catastrophically, burying fossils within only minutes or hours.
Water cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7; Isaiah 55:10)
Sea currents (Psalm 8:8)
“Fountains of the deep broken up” (Genesis 7:11)
Scientific evidence of a young earth:
1) Continents erode too fast
2) Too much mud on the sea floor
3) Too much sodium in the ocean
4) Too rapid decay of earth’s magnetic field
Such crap. And, here's a few reasons why;

Let's start with missing links, well multiple "missing links" have been found. They're not missing anymore i.e, Homo Erectus, Habilis, Australopithecus, and even the Denisovan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICv6GLwt1gM

Also, he leaves out that Geologists still believe in sedimentary forces and catastrophic, and those catastrophes were millions to billions of years ago...

We've had multiple major extinction events.

As for blood circulation, freaking Galen knew that. And, he made people believe in the 4 humours for centuries! Lol.

His entire post is just an army of strawmen!
Chapabel wrote:You had the opportunity to debate me, but you chickened out because the stakes were too high for you. Until you're willing to lay it all on the line and debate me, I have no intention of addressing anything you post. Now run along and cozy up to your nonbelieving playmates.
^ See, people like him will say anything to avoid addressing the flaws in what they believe.

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Chapabel
Posts: 827
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Chapabel » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:48 am

Claire wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:27 am
Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:Ok, here is scientific evidence that the Bible is correct from Dr. Andrew A. Snelling who holds a PhD in geology from the University of Sydney.
Such crap. And, here's a few reasons why;

Let's start with missing links, well multiple "missing links" have been found. They're not missing anymore i.e, Homo Erectus, Habilis, Australopithecus, and even the Denisovan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICv6GLwt1gM

Also, he leaves out that Geologists still believe in sedimentary forces and catastrophic, and those catastrophes were millions to billions of years ago...

We've had multiple major extinction events.

As for blood circulation, freaking Galen knew that. And, he made people believe in the 4 humours for centuries! Lol.

His entire post is just an army of strawmen!
Chapabel wrote:You had the opportunity to debate me, but you chickened out because the stakes were too high for you. Until you're willing to lay it all on the line and debate me, I have no intention of addressing anything you post. Now run along and cozy up to your nonbelieving playmates.
^ See, people like him will say anything to avoid addressing the flaws in what they believe.
Put up or shut up. Either debate me or stop your crap. Let’s settle this once and for all Claire. Formal debate and loser leaves the forum forever. Let’s see how much faith you truly have.

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SEG
Posts: 2026
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:59 pm

Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by SEG » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:34 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:48 am
Put up or shut up. Either debate me or stop your crap. Let’s settle this once and for all Claire. Formal debate and loser leaves the forum forever. Let’s see how much faith you truly have.
Tough words Chappy. Let's see how you respond to my request of the scientific evidence of Noah’s Ark. I'm happy to debate you over this topic btw. Have you the cajones?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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Chapabel
Posts: 827
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:27 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Chapabel » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:02 pm

SEG wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:34 pm
Chapabel wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:48 am
Put up or shut up. Either debate me or stop your crap. Let’s settle this once and for all Claire. Formal debate and loser leaves the forum forever. Let’s see how much faith you truly have.
Tough words Chappy. Let's see how you respond to my request of the scientific evidence of Noah’s Ark. I'm happy to debate you over this topic btw. Have you the cajones?
There is no scientific evidence as far as I know. There have been eyewitness accounts of the ark, but I don’t know of any actual scientific evidence. And yes, I have the cajones but it is not possible to debate matters of faith scientifically. That’s what makes them matters of “faith”. I will be happy to debate you on any issue regarding my faith. Do you have the cajones for that?

Claire
Posts: 1292
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Claire » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:07 pm

Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:Ok, here is scientific evidence that the Bible is correct from Dr. Andrew A. Snelling who holds a PhD in geology from the University of Sydney.
ASTRONOMY: The Bible claims the universe had a beginning. Philosophers and scientists rejected that claim for over two thousand years, but now astronomers believe the universe had a beginning, the so-called big bang (though with a very different time frame).
Stars are innumerable (Genesis 22:17; Jeremiah 33:22)
Stars differ in glory (1 Corinthians 15:41)
Stars follow a predictable pattern (Jeremiah 31:35)
Earth is round, not flat (Isaiah 40:22; Psalm 103:12)
Earth hangs on nothing (not built on pillars) (Job 26:7)
Scientific evidence of a young universe:
1) Spiral galaxies
2) “Missing” supernova remnants
3) Short-lived comets
4) Moon moving away from Earth

ANTHROPOLOGY: The Bible claims that all humans are “one blood” descended from one man and one woman (Acts 17:26; 1 Corinthians 15:45; Genesis 3:20). Some nineteenth-century biologists argued that different races descended from lower animals, but today genetics has verified that there is only one human race.

BIOLOGY: The Bible claims that God created animals “after their kind.” Nineteenth-century biologists argued that animals evolved from other, very different animals, but today biology confirms that creatures reproduce within their own kind.
Blood circulation (Leviticus 17:11)
Scientific evidence of a recent creation:
1) DNA programming for irreducibly complex protein sequences
2) Lack of missing links in the fossil record
3) Dinosaur blood vessels in fossils

GEOLOGY: The Bible claims that God destroyed the earth and the creatures inhabiting it in the worldwide Flood. Nineteenth-century geologists argued that rock layers and the fossils found in them were formed as sediments were deposited slowly, but today geology confirms that many rock layers were deposited catastrophically, burying fossils within only minutes or hours.
Water cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7; Isaiah 55:10)
Sea currents (Psalm 8:8)
“Fountains of the deep broken up” (Genesis 7:11)
Scientific evidence of a young earth:
1) Continents erode too fast
2) Too much mud on the sea floor
3) Too much sodium in the ocean
4) Too rapid decay of earth’s magnetic field
Such crap. And, here's a few reasons why;

Let's start with missing links, well multiple "missing links" have been found. They're not missing anymore i.e, Homo Erectus, Habilis, Australopithecus, and even the Denisovan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICv6GLwt1gM

Also, he leaves out that Geologists still believe in sedimentary forces and catastrophic, and those catastrophes were millions to billions of years ago...

We've had multiple major extinction events.

As for blood circulation, freaking Galen knew that. And, he made people believe in the 4 humours for centuries! Lol.

His entire post is just an army of strawmen!
Chapabel wrote:Put up or shut up. Either debate me or stop your crap. Let’s settle this once and for all Claire. Formal debate and loser leaves the forum forever. Let’s see how much faith you truly have.
I've already addressed that here. And, I was just pointing out a few errors in regards to what Dr. Snelling had to say above.

Humanguy
Posts: 260
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Humanguy » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:35 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:02 pm
There is no scientific evidence as far as I know. There have been eyewitness accounts of the ark, but I don’t know of any actual scientific evidence.
I, for one, would very much like to see those eyewitness accounts of Noah's ark. Could you provide a link, please?

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Chapabel
Posts: 827
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:27 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Chapabel » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:11 pm

Humanguy wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:35 pm
Chapabel wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:02 pm
There is no scientific evidence as far as I know. There have been eyewitness accounts of the ark, but I don’t know of any actual scientific evidence.
I, for one, would very much like to see those eyewitness accounts of Noah's ark. Could you provide a link, please?
Sure thing:
http://www.noahsark.it/eyewitnesses.htm
http://www.arkinsight.nl/noahs-ark-on-m ... -accounts/

I saw a TV show 15-20 years ago where and old man from that area had climbed the mountain and found the ark when he was young. He said he used to play in it as a child.

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SEG
Posts: 2026
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:59 pm

Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by SEG » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:25 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:02 pm
There is no scientific evidence as far as I know. There have been eyewitness accounts of the ark, but I don’t know of any actual scientific evidence.
Noah, his family and your god don't make credible eyewitnesses, no matter how much you wish them to be. Or are you imagining someone else? Of course there is no scientific evidence, the whole impossible fable is fabricated from other previous tales. See: Noah’s Flood and its Predecessors
Noah’s Flood and its Predecessors
by Luke Muehlhauser on June 5, 2010 in Bible flood story tablet

As if the scientific evidence against Noah’s Flood wasn’t clear enough,1 it’s also worth noting that the Genesis flood story was merely adapted from an earlier Mesopotamian flood myth, the Epic of Gilgamesh.2

The epic tells of Gilgamesh, a king who sets off on a journey and is told a story of a great worldwide flood. The similarities between the Epic of Gilgamesh (tablet 11) and the later tale of Noah’s Flood (Genesis 6-9) are obvious.

In the Gilgamesh flood, the gods decide to destroy the earth with a worldwide flood. A righteous man is informed, and told to build a large, roofed boat with multiple decks and “make all living beings go up into the boat,” along with the man’s family. After a violent storm, the earth is covered in water, and the boat comes to rest on a mountain. After the flood, the man releases one bird after another to see if it will come back or find a perch on dry land elsewhere. When the last bird does not return, the man knows the flood has abated, and offers a sacrifice to the gods. The gods smell the “sweet savor” and are pleased, and bless the man with a special promise.

In the Genesis flood, God decides to destroy the earth with a worldwide flood. A righteous man is informed, and told to build a large, roofed boat with multiple decks and make some of every creature go into the boat, along with the man’s family. After a violent storm, the earth is covered in water, and the boat comes to rest on a mountain. After the flood, the man releases one bird after another to see if it will come back or find a perch on dry land elsewhere. When the last bird does not return, the man knows the flood has abated, and offers a sacrifice to God. God smells the “soothing aroma” and is pleased, and blesses the man with a special promise.

But the obvious similarity between the stories isn’t the only reason most scholars think the Genesis flood story was adapted from the Gilgamesh flood story.3 Consider also:

Floods were common in Mesopotamia, but Israel is generally dry. Stories of floods are probably first told by people who experience floods.
The Gilgamesh story was well known throughout the Ancient Near East; one fragment was even found in ancient Israel.
Babylonia was dominant at the time; Israel was a “backwater of sorts.” Usually, a dominant culture influences lesser ones with its own culture and myths.
In fact, even the Gilgamesh epic was adapted – in some parts word-for-word – from two earlier versions of the flood tale that contain many of the same elements: the Sumerian epic of Ziusudra and the Akkadian epic of Atra-hasis. (Tigay, The Evolution of the Gilgamesh Epic.)
Chapabel wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:02 pm

And yes, I have the cajones but it is not possible to debate matters of faith scientifically. That’s what makes them matters of “faith”. I will be happy to debate you on any issue regarding my faith. Do you have the cajones for that?
Which means that after mountains of actual scientific evidence and proven theories like the evolution of biology are presented to you, you can say, "nah, nah, nah, go away, my invisible god made it all happen". As if "faith" without evidence was a commendable attribute! Pfft!
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

User avatar
SEG
Posts: 2026
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:59 pm

Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by SEG » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:35 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:11 pm
I saw a TV show 15-20 years ago where and old man from that area had climbed the mountain and found the ark when he was young. He said he used to play in it as a child.
I saw a TV show 15-20 years ago where and old man from that area had climbed the mountain and found the Starship Enterprise when he was young. He said he used to play in it as a child.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

User avatar
Chapabel
Posts: 827
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:27 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Chapabel » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:28 am

SEG wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:25 pm
Chapabel wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:02 pm
There is no scientific evidence as far as I know. There have been eyewitness accounts of the ark, but I don’t know of any actual scientific evidence.
Noah, his family and your god don't make credible eyewitnesses, no matter how much you wish them to be. Or are you imagining someone else? Of course there is no scientific evidence, the whole impossible fable is fabricated from other previous tales. See: Noah’s Flood and its Predecessors
Noah’s Flood and its Predecessors
by Luke Muehlhauser on June 5, 2010 in Bible flood story tablet

As if the scientific evidence against Noah’s Flood wasn’t clear enough,1 it’s also worth noting that the Genesis flood story was merely adapted from an earlier Mesopotamian flood myth, the Epic of Gilgamesh.2

The epic tells of Gilgamesh, a king who sets off on a journey and is told a story of a great worldwide flood. The similarities between the Epic of Gilgamesh (tablet 11) and the later tale of Noah’s Flood (Genesis 6-9) are obvious.

In the Gilgamesh flood, the gods decide to destroy the earth with a worldwide flood. A righteous man is informed, and told to build a large, roofed boat with multiple decks and “make all living beings go up into the boat,” along with the man’s family. After a violent storm, the earth is covered in water, and the boat comes to rest on a mountain. After the flood, the man releases one bird after another to see if it will come back or find a perch on dry land elsewhere. When the last bird does not return, the man knows the flood has abated, and offers a sacrifice to the gods. The gods smell the “sweet savor” and are pleased, and bless the man with a special promise.

In the Genesis flood, God decides to destroy the earth with a worldwide flood. A righteous man is informed, and told to build a large, roofed boat with multiple decks and make some of every creature go into the boat, along with the man’s family. After a violent storm, the earth is covered in water, and the boat comes to rest on a mountain. After the flood, the man releases one bird after another to see if it will come back or find a perch on dry land elsewhere. When the last bird does not return, the man knows the flood has abated, and offers a sacrifice to God. God smells the “soothing aroma” and is pleased, and blesses the man with a special promise.

But the obvious similarity between the stories isn’t the only reason most scholars think the Genesis flood story was adapted from the Gilgamesh flood story.3 Consider also:

Floods were common in Mesopotamia, but Israel is generally dry. Stories of floods are probably first told by people who experience floods.
The Gilgamesh story was well known throughout the Ancient Near East; one fragment was even found in ancient Israel.
Babylonia was dominant at the time; Israel was a “backwater of sorts.” Usually, a dominant culture influences lesser ones with its own culture and myths.
In fact, even the Gilgamesh epic was adapted – in some parts word-for-word – from two earlier versions of the flood tale that contain many of the same elements: the Sumerian epic of Ziusudra and the Akkadian epic of Atra-hasis. (Tigay, The Evolution of the Gilgamesh Epic.)
Chapabel wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:02 pm

And yes, I have the cajones but it is not possible to debate matters of faith scientifically. That’s what makes them matters of “faith”. I will be happy to debate you on any issue regarding my faith. Do you have the cajones for that?
Which means that after mountains of actual scientific evidence and proven theories like the evolution of biology are presented to you, you can say, "nah, nah, nah, go away, my invisible god made it all happen". As if "faith" without evidence was a commendable attribute! Pfft!
Do you have scientific evidence for the hanging gardens of Babylon? Do you have scientific evidence for Hannibal crossing the Alps with elephants? Nope. All we have are eyewitness testimonies. You’ll believe the story about Hannibal because it fits your belief. But you reject stories from the Bible because none of them fit your biases. And btw evolution has NOT been scientifically proven. That’s why it’s still called a theory. For something to be scientificly proven, it must be observed. No one has seen a monkey change into a human.

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