Why The Trinity is a False Doctrine

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Moonwood the Hare
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Re: Why The Trinity is a False Doctrine

Post by Moonwood the Hare » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:09 pm

SEG wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:10 am
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:15 pm
I have not seen any evidence for copying.
The copying is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_deity
List of triple deities.
None of that is evidence of copying. Correlation does not imply causality. Some of those are so far removed in time and space they could not conceivably have been copied by the early Christians. Yes there are lots of triplets among deities, there are even more sets of four, some sets of two and some sets of five. To have evidence of copying you need a strong similarity not just something vague like the number three being involved and you need some kind of plausible route for the transmission to have taken place.

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SEG
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Re: Why The Trinity is a False Doctrine

Post by SEG » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:24 pm

Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:09 pm
SEG wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:10 am
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:15 pm
I have not seen any evidence for copying.
The copying is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_deity
List of triple deities.
None of that is evidence of copying. Correlation does not imply causality. Some of those are so far removed in time and space they could not conceivably have been copied by the early Christians. Yes there are lots of triplets among deities, there are even more sets of four, some sets of two and some sets of five. To have evidence of copying you need a strong similarity not just something vague like the number three being involved and you need some kind of plausible route for the transmission to have taken place.
If Christianity pulls a rabbit out of its hat at some stage and says that three deities are worshipped as one and if such deities are common throughout world mythology, plus the number three has a long history of mythical associations, well Bucko, that's good enough for me to say that it's copied.
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Moonwood the Hare
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Re: Why The Trinity is a False Doctrine

Post by Moonwood the Hare » Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:16 pm

SEG wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:24 pm
If Christianity pulls a rabbit out of its hat at some stage and says that three deities are worshipped as one and if such deities are common throughout world mythology, plus the number three has a long history of mythical associations, well Bucko, that's good enough for me to say that it's copied.
Sure, that's your judgement. It's not the only possible judgement as the article you linked to shows by referencing the concept of archetypes. What you don't have is evidence that the Christian trinity was copied from anywhere. Given that these threefold patterns are common and there is no evidence to suggest they are all copied from earlier versions then it would seem to be the case that such patterns can, and often do, occur independently. If it is possible that such patterns can occur independently, and the evidence strongly suggests they can, the mere presence of such a pattern cannot indicate that it must have been copied.

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SEG
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Re: Why The Trinity is a False Doctrine

Post by SEG » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:29 pm

The copying could have come from Eusebius. He had a track record of forgery and was a commanding presence beside Constantine at the First Council of Nicaea in 325CE when the word trinity was first formally debated as a doctrine.

Referenced within the same article
Georges Dumézil's trifunctional hypothesis proposed that ancient Indo-European society conceived itself as structured around three activities: worship, war, and toil
worship = Jesus, war = OT God , and toil =Holy Ghost

The holy ghost is depicted as a dove flying away from toil and released into the heavens
Trinity painting.jpg
Trinity painting.jpg (41.95 KiB) Viewed 575 times
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why The Trinity is a False Doctrine

Post by Chapabel » Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:04 pm

SEG wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:47 am

You are naive if you think that other religions didn't exist before Christianity and Judaism.

Still no mention of the word "Trinity" in the last book of the Bible where everything is supposed to be revealed. This is another reason of Why The Trinity is a False Doctrine
I didn't say there was no religion before Judaism and Christianity. I said God existed before any religion.

I have shown you straight from the Bible the existence of the Trinity in the book of Revelation. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are all active in the book.

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Moonwood the Hare
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Re: Why The Trinity is a False Doctrine

Post by Moonwood the Hare » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:40 pm

SEG wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:29 pm
The copying could have come from Eusebius. He had a track record of forgery and was a commanding presence beside Constantine at the First Council of Nicaea in 325CE when the word trinity was first formally debated as a doctrine.
Eusabeus may have been trying to push things back in what can be seen as a more pagan direction. I think that is what Origen's version of arianism was doing. However this is the paganism of sophisticated neoplatonists and it did not win the day in the end. This is something that puzzles me by the way; if you want to look at possible pagan influences on early Christianity why are you looking at Nordic or Hindu examples from a completely different era when you have the ongoing interaction between Christianity and neoplatonism right out in the open? This is what makes me wonder if you have read a single book about patristic thinking. Why are you not interested in the stoic influence on the logos theologians? You seem determined to make obscure connections and ignore the really obvious ones.
Referenced within the same article
Georges Dumézil's trifunctional hypothesis proposed that ancient Indo-European society conceived itself as structured around three activities: worship, war, and toil
worship = Jesus, war = OT God , and toil =Holy Ghost

The holy ghost is depicted as a dove flying away from toil and released into the heavens
Well that shows clearly that you can connect anything if you wish. It is why these kinds of claims are worthless. And I mean your claim here. I am not trying to attack Dumézil who seems to have been trying to show how a triple God emerged in a particular historic context.

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SEG
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Re: Why The Trinity is a False Doctrine

Post by SEG » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:54 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:12 pm
Christianity did not steal the concept form other religions. Other religions perverted the truth of a Triune God into their false narratives.
SEG wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:55 pm
How could they know this if their religions were thousands of years before Christianity?
God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit existed before any recognized religion was formed.
SEG wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:55 pm
Yahweh was only mentioned at the very end of the Late Bronze Age, before that they worshipped other Canaanite gods. Pagan gods go back thousands of years earlier than this.
Chapabel wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:12 pm
God the Father, God the Son and God the Holt Spirit existed before any religion.
Cool, all you need to do now is prove it. There is plenty of evidence of pagan religions existing before your Canaanite, Jewish and Christian religions.
The earliest man did not write things down, they passed information down through oral stories. As man drifted away from God it is easy to see how their stories of the true Triune God morphed into various false religions.
That's a straw man argument. There is plenty of documentary evidence before your religions came along.
Chapabel wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:12 pm
All these false religions are under the direction of Satan who is a cheap imitator. He cannot come up with anything original, so he copies from God.
Surely you aren't saying that the devil made up religions before your own?
This is clearly seen in the book of the Revelation where Satan sets up his own trinity with himself as God, the Antichrist as the son and the false prophet as the Holy Spirit.
That's not clear, it's just a stretch. You said previously that "persons" formed the trinity. Dragons and beasts aren't gods or persons.
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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SEG
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Re: Why The Trinity is a False Doctrine

Post by SEG » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:00 am

SEG wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:47 am
You are naive if you think that other religions didn't exist before Christianity and Judaism.
Still no mention of the word "Trinity" in the last book of the Bible where everything is supposed to be revealed. This is another reason of Why The Trinity is a False Doctrine
Chapabel wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:04 pm
I didn't say there was no religion before Judaism and Christianity. I said God existed before any religion.
Prove it anywhere outside of the Bible. You can't.
Chapabel wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:04 pm
I have shown you straight from the Bible the existence of the Trinity in the book of Revelation. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are all active in the book.
It's a god damned pity for you that "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit" don't appear in Revelation as the Trinity. The last book was supposed to reveal the true answers of your most important doctrine and it failed miserably to do so.
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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SEG
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Re: Why The Trinity is a False Doctrine

Post by SEG » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:20 am

SEG wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:29 pm
The copying could have come from Eusebius. He had a track record of forgery and was a commanding presence beside Constantine at the First Council of Nicaea in 325CE when the word trinity was first formally debated as a doctrine.
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:40 pm
Eusabeus may have been trying to push things back in what can be seen as a more pagan direction.

He was more interested in lying for political gain than writing correct church history.
According to Wiki:
in Eusebius' Praeparatio evangelica (Book XII, Chapter 31) in which Eusebius discussed "That it will be necessary sometimes to use falsehood as a remedy for the benefit of those who require such a mode of treatment.
He was the chief suspect for altering the infamous testimonium flavianum forgery that lots of Christians dutifully quote in Josephus.
Why are you not interested in the stoic influence on the logos theologians? You seem determined to make obscure connections and ignore the really obvious ones.
I'm more interested in the Gnostic ideas that influenced early Christian writings as well as Middle Platonism.
Georges Dumézil's trifunctional hypothesis proposed that ancient Indo-European society conceived itself as structured around three activities: worship, war, and toil
worship = Jesus, war = OT God , and toil =Holy Ghost
The holy ghost is depicted as a dove flying away from toil and released into the heavens
Well that shows clearly that you can connect anything if you wish. It is why these kinds of claims are worthless. And I mean your claim here. I am not trying to attack Dumézil who seems to have been trying to show how a triple God emerged in a particular historic context.
So what do you see as the dove depicting in the Trinity paintings?
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why The Trinity is a False Doctrine

Post by Chapabel » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:03 pm

SEG wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:00 am
Prove it anywhere outside of the Bible. You can't.
We walk by faith not by sight. People in Jesus' day saw the miracles He did and they still refused to believe. All the evidence in the world will not convince you because you refuse to believe.

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