Why People Believe in Gods

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Humanguy
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Re: Why People Believe in Gods

Post by Humanguy » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:04 pm

Og, would you care to share your religious experience with us?

Claire
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Re: Why People Believe in Gods

Post by Claire » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:35 am

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Last edited by Claire on Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SEG
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Re: Why People Believe in Gods

Post by SEG » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:54 am

Humanguy wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:04 pm
Og, would you care to share your religious experience with us?
Would you care to explain your wasting experience with us? Do you ever get that wasted before a gig that they have to pull you out from under a bed making animal noises like Jim Morrison?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Og3
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Re: Why People Believe in Gods

Post by Og3 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:58 am

SEG wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:54 am
Humanguy wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:04 pm
Og, would you care to share your religious experience with us?
Would you care to explain your wasting experience with us? Do you ever get that wasted before a gig that they have to pull you out from under a bed making animal noises like Jim Morrison?
No, I did get falling-down drunk once, but it is not an experience I wish to repeat, nor discuss.

As for one of my religious experiences... I was in a church on a Sunday. It was an otherwise very typical Sunday, and I don't recall that the service was particularly moving or emotional or anything of that sort. I was certainly not in a state of high emotion; if there was anything on my mind it was likely lunch. While I was nominally a Christian, that meant very little to me aside from a sense of community identity, not unlike saying that I was a Dodger fan or that I attended a certain school.

I had knelt at the altar hundreds of times, and had never felt anything unusual. I was wide awake, not intoxicated, and not in any particularly extreme physiological condition -- tired, hungry, none of that. Normal in all respects. I knelt down to pray a very simple prayer, and as I closed my eyes, I felt that I was in the very presence of God. It seemed to me that I knelt at his very feet, with Jesus seated at His right hand (I dared not look up). I did not see God, nor Jesus, but I felt that I was before their thrones. I did not physically hear a voice, but I felt a communication, more of a feeling that a verbal message. If I were to put it into words, it would be something like, "Are you done fooling around?" or "Are you ready to be serious about this?"

I prayed what must be the shortest and most rapid prayer on record, and got up as quickly as I could. It was not unlike picking up a toy telephone and finding oneself speaking to a real person, but on an even larger scale. I did not believe myself to have been moved in time or space, I did not believe that I was transported to somewhere else. I was not asleep and did not dream (i.e. it was not a hypnogogic experience) because the nature of the event did not change, and because I did not lose time. I know that I did not lose time because a friend chided me for the brevity of my prayer -- that my knees barely touched down before I got back up.

I did not experience synesthesia or smell bacon, I was not having a sub-arachnoid aneurysm (my eyes didn't go out of focus and I'd be dead by now), and I did not have a psychotic break. I have never, before or since, been diagnosed with a DSM-recognized mental disorder. I was then, and am now, sane and fully functional.

I do sincerely believe that God communicated with me, and as a result of the experience, I became a Christian in more than name only; I began to truly believe. Years later, I would question the validity of that experience and test it in a different crucible; I will relate more of that experience later on, perhaps. You can see from the terms in which I have framed it that I have analyzed and eliminated many hypotheses. But this is one case in which I believe that I had a religious experience, which I believe to be valid and true, that is, a real experience of real communication with the True and Living God.
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Claire
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Re: Why People Believe in Gods

Post by Claire » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:19 am

SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:Well, all I've seen are accusations against Maria Valtorta and her writings, but no one backing them up.
All I've seen are accusations against Billy Graham and his writings, but no one backing them up. Who cares?
So, people don't have to back up their accusations?

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SEG
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Re: Why People Believe in Gods

Post by SEG » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:12 am

Og3 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:58 am
No, I did get falling-down drunk once, but it is not an experience I wish to repeat, nor discuss.
I was actually speaking to HG. Interesting though, that you only got drunk once.
As for one of my religious experiences...

You've had lots?
I do sincerely believe that God communicated with me, and as a result of the experience, I became a Christian in more than name only; I began to truly believe. Years later, I would question the validity of that experience and test it in a different crucible; I will relate more of that experience later on, perhaps. You can see from the terms in which I have framed it that I have analyzed and eliminated many hypotheses. But this is one case in which I believe that I had a religious experience, which I believe to be valid and true, that is, a real experience of real communication with the True and Living God.
Would you be surprised that scientists can replicate this experience by stimulating the brain?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Humanguy
Posts: 260
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Re: Why People Believe in Gods

Post by Humanguy » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:23 pm

Og3 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:58 am

I do sincerely believe that God communicated with me, and as a result of the experience, I became a Christian in more than name only; I began to truly believe. Years later, I would question the validity of that experience and test it in a different crucible; I will relate more of that experience later on, perhaps. You can see from the terms in which I have framed it that I have analyzed and eliminated many hypotheses. But this is one case in which I believe that I had a religious experience, which I believe to be valid and true, that is, a real experience of real communication with the True and Living God.
But many people of different religions believe that their god/gods communicated with them and that their experiences were valid and true, that is, a real experience of real communication with the true and living god/gods. You're saying that all those people are wrong, correct?

Og3
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Re: Why People Believe in Gods

Post by Og3 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:29 pm

Og3 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:58 am
No, I did get falling-down drunk once, but it is not an experience I wish to repeat, nor discuss.
SEG wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:12 am
I was actually speaking to HG. Interesting though, that you only got drunk once.
Falling down drunk, only once. Otherwise drunk, more than once. Soon thereafter, I went on the wagon.
As for one of my religious experiences...

You've had lots?
More than one.
I do sincerely believe that God communicated with me, and as a result of the experience, I became a Christian in more than name only; I began to truly believe. Years later, I would question the validity of that experience and test it in a different crucible; I will relate more of that experience later on, perhaps. You can see from the terms in which I have framed it that I have analyzed and eliminated many hypotheses. But this is one case in which I believe that I had a religious experience, which I believe to be valid and true, that is, a real experience of real communication with the True and Living God.
Would you be surprised that scientists can replicate this experience by stimulating the brain?
Not in the least. But at that moment, there was not a scientist hovering over me with a PETN scan, nor sticking electrodes into my brain. By the way, a scientist sticking electrodes into your brain can make you see your family pet. Does that mean that whenever you've seen your family pet, a scientist was sticking needles into your brain?
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Og3
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:41 am

Re: Why People Believe in Gods

Post by Og3 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:31 pm

Humanguy wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:23 pm
Og3 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:58 am

I do sincerely believe that God communicated with me, and as a result of the experience, I became a Christian in more than name only; I began to truly believe. Years later, I would question the validity of that experience and test it in a different crucible; I will relate more of that experience later on, perhaps. You can see from the terms in which I have framed it that I have analyzed and eliminated many hypotheses. But this is one case in which I believe that I had a religious experience, which I believe to be valid and true, that is, a real experience of real communication with the True and Living God.
But many people of different religions believe that their god/gods communicated with them and that their experiences were valid and true, that is, a real experience of real communication with the true and living god/gods. You're saying that all those people are wrong, correct?
Either they are wrong, or else I am wrong. That would seem to be a given. But that does not mean that we are both wrong.
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Og3
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:41 am

Re: Why People Believe in Gods

Post by Og3 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:40 pm

Also... Were those other experiences (I assume that you postulate them, since you cite no references) similar qualitatively?

Points to consider:
Specificity of place(381 xxx xxxx Rd, Sxxxxxxxx, Ca, 9xxxx)
Specificity of person (me)
Specificity of time (1972)
Specificity of prior mental state (normal)
Specificity of potential intoxicants (none)
Specificity of emotional state (neutral)
Specificity of expectations (none).
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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