Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth

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Claire
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Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth

Post by Claire » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:22 pm

SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:
SEG wrote:...and secondly the evolution of the universe was not "random coincidence" but the opposite, it has been an orderly process.
Precisely.

God is about order and that's reflected in His creation.

Jesus said,

"The universe is a work of calm creation. The Father did not do things in a disorderly way, but He made the universe in successive phases" &
"Violence is always against order; and God, and what comes from God is order".

(Poem of the Man-God)
Except you don't need any deities to have an orderly universe.
SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:Because?
Duh, it works quite well without them!
What's your explanation for order in the universe?
SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:
SEG wrote:Give me one intelligent reason why we need any supernatural being.
What would an intelligent reason be to you?
From you? Gold.
Such as?

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SEG
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Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth

Post by SEG » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:29 pm

Claire wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:20 pm
What's your explanation for order in the universe?
Ask Douglas Adams. He knew when he was a puddle.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Claire
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Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth

Post by Claire » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:30 am

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Last edited by Claire on Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth

Post by Chapabel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:54 pm

SEG wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:09 am
Chapabel wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:38 am
Humanguy wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:16 pm
Chap, when you sit in a chair you trust that it won't collapse under you because it basically never happens. It has nothing to do with faith.
Instead of using the word “faith” you insert the word “trust”. It’s the same thing, my friend.
Nope. There is lots of evidence that you can check on that an average chair hasn't collapsed because it has been sat on for years without incident. We know what a stable chair looks like from our past experience in reality and from that evidence we trust that it won't collapse.

Then you have this shaky "faith" in an invisible, mute, supernatural being that has no credible evidence. Big difference don't you think?
And there is plenty of evidence for God. But you reject that evidence. Just because you refuse to accept the evidence does not mean my faith in God is blind. It isn't.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth

Post by Chapabel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:00 pm

SEG wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:16 am
Chapabel wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:40 am
Why would I give heed to what a nonbeliever has to say on the subject. Would you be impressed and/or persuaded if I quoted you a believer that used to be an atheist?
No, but he saw the light because he educated himself in science. There may be help for you yet. Oh, and he is still saved, btw. He can't lose.
If he was saved to begin with, he wouldn't be denying God now. The fact that he rejects God now reflects the fact that he never accepted Him.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth

Post by Chapabel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:03 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:37 am
SEG wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:45 pm
Chapabel wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:18 pm
Everyone displays faith. Sitting in a chair without first inspecting the screws, bolts and nuts that hold it together is an example of faith. You actually have more faith than I do. You believe this wonderful universe with all of it's unexplained complexities is just a random coincidence. The formation of the universe takes faith whether you believe it was by design or by chance. I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist.
It's got to do with evidence Chappy. Faith is what you use when you have insufficient evidence and is a poor pathway to truth.
I don't believe "this wonderful universe with all of it's unexplained complexities is just a random coincidence." Firstly there aren't that many "unexplained complexities" and secondly the evolution of the universe was not "random coincidence" but the opposite, it has been an orderly process. This statement shows your ignorance of science.
If you believe the universe was created through an orderly process, there must have been a higher power to order it. Maybe you don’t understand science as much as you think you do.
Hey SEG, I'm sure you simply overlooked this question, so I'm just want to throw this out again...if the evolution of the universe is an orderly process, who ordered it?

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SEG
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Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth

Post by SEG » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:37 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:00 pm
If he was saved to begin with, he wouldn't be denying God now. The fact that he rejects God now reflects the fact that he never accepted Him.
But he DID accept him. He got baptised and knew the Bible back to front, much better than you in fact. He was well on the way to becoming a pastor when something happened. Once saved, always saved
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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SEG
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Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth

Post by SEG » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:47 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:54 pm
SEG wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:09 am
Chapabel wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:38 am


Instead of using the word “faith” you insert the word “trust”. It’s the same thing, my friend.
Nope. There is lots of evidence that you can check on that an average chair hasn't collapsed because it has been sat on for years without incident. We know what a stable chair looks like from our past experience in reality and from that evidence we trust that it won't collapse.

Then you have this shaky "faith" in an invisible, mute, supernatural being that has no credible evidence. Big difference don't you think?
And there is plenty of evidence for God. But you reject that evidence. Just because you refuse to accept the evidence does not mean my faith in God is blind. It isn't.
If the evidence is poor (and the evidence that you accept is because it's circular) and you accept it, it just means that you are gullible and will accept flawed evidence.

That is the very essence of blind faith. If there was strong, verifiable evidence, I would get down on my miserable knees and pray beside you. There isn't.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Claire
Posts: 1230
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth

Post by Claire » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:54 pm

SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:
SEG wrote:...and secondly the evolution of the universe was not "random coincidence" but the opposite, it has been an orderly process.
Precisely.

God is about order and that's reflected in His creation.

Jesus said,

"The universe is a work of calm creation. The Father did not do things in a disorderly way, but He made the universe in successive phases" &
"Violence is always against order; and God, and what comes from God is order".

(Poem of the Man-God)
Except you don't need any deities to have an orderly universe.
Claire wrote:
SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:Because?
Duh, it works quite well without them!
What's your explanation for order in the universe?
SEG wrote:Ask Douglas Adams. He knew when he was a puddle.
If you want spiritual and philosophical truths from a science fiction author, I hear L. Ron Hubbard has a lot to say.

And, to claim the universe doesn't require God to have order, because it's orderly now without God, is to base an assertion on another assertion without proving the first one. You assume there is no God, so you assume God is not needed.
SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:
SEG wrote:Give me one intelligent reason why we need any supernatural being.
What would an intelligent reason be to you?
From you? Gold.
Such as?

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SEG
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Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth

Post by SEG » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:07 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:03 pm
Hey SEG, I'm sure you simply overlooked this question, so I'm just want to throw this out again...if the evolution of the universe is an orderly process, who ordered it?
No-one ordered it. The laws of physics are ordered to the point that entropy is close to zero. No gods or gremlins required.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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