The Ossuary of James

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Claire
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The Ossuary of James

Post by Claire »

Jesus's father, Joseph, had a brother named Alphaeus, as mentioned by Hegesippus (110-180 CE) in Ecclesiastical History, and Maria Valtorta in The Poem of the Man-God, for example. Alphaeus, Joseph, and their spouses lived in Nazareth. Alphaeus had four sons: Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas, and they and Jesus grew up together. At the request of their parents, James and Judas were tutored by Jesus's mother, Mary. James and Judas being the youngest, about the same age as Jesus, were the closest with Him. James in particular resembled Jesus the most. So, they were like brothers, thus referred to as such (Matt. 13:55/Mrk. 6:3/Gal. 1:18-19/The Poem of the Man-God. Note: The sisters of Jesus refer to the women disciples)

In the mid-1970's, the Ossuary of James was discovered in a first-century burial cave in East Jerusalem. It bears a Hebrew inscription: "Yaakov bar Yoseph achui de Yeshua" (James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus). Scientific expert analysis says the ossuary and inscription are authentic, and date to the first century. André Lemaire of the Sorbonne, and Ada Yardeni of the Hebrew University, whom Hershel Shanks has described as "two world class experts in paleography", also reached the same conclusion:
Below is the list of world-renowned researchers and experts who examined the inscription.

Experts In Natural Sciences, Archaeometry, Microscopy, Geology, Chemistry, Stone, And Patina:

  • Prof. Wolfgang Krumbein, world expert in stone, geology, bio-patina, and long-term development of micro-organisms on stone, who performed his tests in collaboration with the laboratories of Oldenburg University, Germany.
  • The staff of the Israel Geological Survey of Jerusalem, which specializes in archaeometric tests. Archaeometry is the science that connects natural sciences, chemistry, geology and archeology. This included geologists Dr. Shimon Ilani and Dr. Amnon Rosenfeld, together with electronic microscope expert Michael Dvoracheck.
  • Staff of the Royal Ontario Museum of Toronto, which examined the inscription before the ossuary was exhibited at the ROM in 2002.
  • Orna Cohen, expert in stone and conservation for the Israel Antiquities Authority and Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
  • Prof. James Harrell, of the University of Toledo, USA. Professor of geology of sediments, stone patina, and ancient construction stones.
  • Prof. Yuval Goren, archeology, former staff member of the IAA and the Tel Aviv University. Expert in petrography of ancient pottery.
Experts In Archeology, Script, Language, And Engraving:
  • Prof. Andre Lemaire, Sorbonne University, world expert on Semitic epigraphy, and specifically Hebrew and Aramaic inscriptions, philology, and archeology of the Land of Israel.
  • Dr. Ada Yardeni, of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, world expert in paleography, development and history of ancient Hebrew and Aramaic.
  • Prof. Ronny Reich, archeologist, scholar of Jerusalem in the Second Temple period (1-2 century AD), of Haifa University, and former senior member of the Israel Antiquities Authority who participated in numerous archeological excavations in Jerusalem during the last 50 years.
  • Prof. Gabriel Barkay, senior archeologist who participated in numerous archeological excavations in Jerusalem. University lecturer.
  • Prof. Yosef Naveh, expert in early Hebrew and Aramaic inscriptions.
  • Prof. Frank Moore Cross, of Harvard University, expert in ancient inscriptions, who examined the ossuary inscription in Canada in 2002.
  • Prof. Hagai Misgav, of the Hebrew University. Expert in western Semitic inscriptions, epigraphy and paleography, and ossuary inscriptions.
  • Prof. Shmuel Ahitov, biblical scholar, Ben Gurion University.
The findings of all these experts support the authenticity of the ossuary in entirety.
Prof. Camil Fuchs of Tel Aviv, and other researchers, conducted an extensive statistical analysis of the occurrence of these three names in ancient Jerusalem, and the probability that the ossuary belonged to James, brother of Jesus of Nazareth. They determined with 95% accuracy the following:
...at the time there were 1.71 people named James with a father Joseph and a brother named Jesus
Statistically speaking, the most likely scenario is that the inscription can only refer to a single person during that time period.
...with a probability of over 99%, the ossuary was used two thousand years ago to intern the bones of James the brother of Jesus of Nazareth.
Professor Fuchs also points out:
...it is very rare to find the brother of the deceased named in a bone-box inscription. In fact, in only one other case of the thousands of recovered bone-boxes is the brother of the deceased listed. In one other case the son of the deceased is named.
He continued:
...there is little doubt that this [naming a brother or son] was done only when there was a very meaningful reason to refer to a family member of the deceased, usually due to his importance and fame.
Sources:
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/dai ... a-forgery/
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/dai ... authentic/
http://discoveringjesusexhibit.com/the-james-ossuary/
https://medium.com/@tr93ee/does-the-jam ... 0db95cf8d1
Last edited by Claire on Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:45 am, edited 3 times in total.
"He that keepeth his mouth and his tongue, keepeth his soul from distress" -- Prov. 21:23

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Moonwood the Hare
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Re: The Ossuary of James

Post by Moonwood the Hare »

This was discovered in the early noughties as your sources make clear, not the seventies. I remember the discovery and also the later dismissal of it, though there is some controversy I gather it is now widely regarded as a fake.

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Claire
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Re: The Ossuary of James

Post by Claire »

Moonwood the Hare wrote:This was discovered in the early noughties as your sources make clear, not the seventies. I remember the discovery and also the later dismissal of it, though there is some controversy I gather it is now widely regarded as a fake.
No, the ossuary was discovered in the mid-70's, acquired by Oded Golan, an antiquities collector, in the late-70's, then announced to the public in 2002. In 2004, Golan was accused of forgery by the Israel Antiquities Authority regarding the inscription, but acquitted in 2012. And, scientific expert analysis does say the ossuary and inscription are authentic, and date to the first century (see above).
"He that keepeth his mouth and his tongue, keepeth his soul from distress" -- Prov. 21:23

searchengineguy
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Re: The Ossuary of James

Post by searchengineguy »

How does any of this prove that this James was the blood brother of Jesus of Nazareth?
“One would go mad if one took the Bible seriously; but to take it seriously one must be already mad.”
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Claire
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Re: The Ossuary of James

Post by Claire »

searchengineguy wrote:How does any of this prove that this James was the blood brother of Jesus of Nazareth?
Again, they were like brothers, thus referred to as such.
"He that keepeth his mouth and his tongue, keepeth his soul from distress" -- Prov. 21:23

searchengineguy
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Re: The Ossuary of James

Post by searchengineguy »

Claire wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:47 am
searchengineguy wrote:How does any of this prove that this James was the blood brother of Jesus of Nazareth?
Again, they were like brothers, thus referred to as such.
But where is the proof? There's not even any verifiable proof of Jesus of Nazareth, let alone that he had a brother! Let alone this Ossuary proves they were brothers! This goes nowhere fast, it's just more wishful thinking.
“One would go mad if one took the Bible seriously; but to take it seriously one must be already mad.”
Aleister Crowley

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Claire
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Re: The Ossuary of James

Post by Claire »

searchengineguy wrote:
Claire wrote:
searchengineguy wrote:How does any of this prove that this James was the blood brother of Jesus of Nazareth?
Again, they were like brothers, thus referred to as such.
But where is the proof? There's not even any verifiable proof of Jesus of Nazareth, let alone that he had a brother! Let alone this Ossuary proves they were brothers! This goes nowhere fast, it's just more wishful thinking.
Scientific experts concluded a 99% probability the name "Jesus" inscribed on the ossuary refers to Jesus of Nazareth, based on statistical analysis of the first century, which is as good as you'll get regarding people that long ago. Considering this, and how Jesus and James of Alphaeus were like brothers, etc, I can deduce that James, and the James of the ossuary, are one in the same.
"He that keepeth his mouth and his tongue, keepeth his soul from distress" -- Prov. 21:23

searchengineguy
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Re: The Ossuary of James

Post by searchengineguy »

Claire wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:54 am
Scientific experts concluded a 99% probability the name "Jesus" inscribed on the ossuary refers to Jesus of Nazareth, based on statistical analysis of the first century, which is as good as you'll get from people that long ago.
Really? Was that a peer reviewed paper or just another lame assertion? Because I heard that Scientific experts concluded a 99% probability the name "Jesus" inscribed on the ossuary DOES NOT refer to Jesus of Nazareth, based on statistical analysis of the first century.
Considering this, and how Jesus and James of Alphaeus were like brothers
What make you say that? Did they play together as children or chat to their parents in a family meeting?
Papias of Hierapolis would say that his mother was the wife of Alphaeus. If she was, she couldn't be the wife of Joseph could she?
Papias of Hierapolis, who lived circa 70–163 AD, in the surviving fragments of his work Exposition of the Sayings of the Lord relates that Mary, wife of Alphaeus is mother of James the Less
“One would go mad if one took the Bible seriously; but to take it seriously one must be already mad.”
Aleister Crowley

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Claire
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Re: The Ossuary of James

Post by Claire »

SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:Scientific experts concluded a 99% probability the name "Jesus" inscribed on the ossuary refers to Jesus of Nazareth, based on statistical analysis of the first century, which is as good as you'll get regarding people that long ago.
Really? Was that a peer reviewed paper or just another lame assertion?
It's probability, not an assertion. And, there's not a peer-reviewed paper on their statistical analysis result yet, but I'm sure you realize this doesn't "prove" anything.
SEG wrote:I heard that Scientific experts concluded a 99% probability the name "Jesus" inscribed on the ossuary DOES NOT refer to Jesus of Nazareth, based on statistical analysis of the first century.
Cite the experts/result.
SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:Considering this, and how Jesus and James of Alphaeus were like brothers, etc, I can deduce that James, and the James of the ossuary, are one in the same.
What make you say that? Did they play together as children or chat to their parents in a family meeting? Papias of Hierapolis would say that his mother was the wife of Alphaeus. If she was, she couldn't be the wife of Joseph could she?
Papias of Hierapolis, who lived circa 70–163 AD, in the surviving fragments of his work Exposition of the Sayings of the Lord relates that Mary, wife of Alphaeus is mother of James the Less
See my opening post for what makes me say that. As for Papias, he's correct, and more than one Mary existed, jsyk. So, did you deliberately leave out, or fail to notice the colon at the end of that quote, as well as Papias's quote that followed, when you copied it from Wikipedia:
Papias of Hierapolis, who lived circa 70–163 AD, in the surviving fragments of his work Exposition of the Sayings of the Lord relates that Mary, wife of Alphaeus is mother of James the Less:

Mary, mother of James the Less and Joseph, wife of Alphaeus was the sister of Mary the mother of the Lord, whom John names of Cleophas. [5]
"He that keepeth his mouth and his tongue, keepeth his soul from distress" -- Prov. 21:23

searchengineguy
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Re: The Ossuary of James

Post by searchengineguy »

Claire wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:32 am
Scientific experts concluded a 99% probability the name "Jesus" inscribed on the ossuary refers to Jesus of Nazareth, based on statistical analysis of the first century, which is as good as you'll get regarding people that long ago.
Really? Was that a peer reviewed paper or just another lame assertion?
It's probability, not an assertion. And, there's not a peer-reviewed paper on their statistical analysis result yet, but I'm sure you realize this doesn't "prove" anything.
Well let's see the evidence.
SEG wrote:I heard that Scientific experts concluded a 99% probability the name "Jesus" inscribed on the ossuary DOES NOT refer to Jesus of Nazareth, based on statistical analysis of the first century.
Cite the experts/result.
You go first. Mine was bullshit, the same as yours.
Claire wrote:Considering this, and how Jesus and James of Alphaeus were like brothers, etc, I can deduce that James, and the James of the ossuary, are one in the same.
SEG wrote:What make you say that? Did they play together as children or chat to their parents in a family meeting? Papias of Hierapolis would say that his mother was the wife of Alphaeus. If she was, she couldn't be the wife of Joseph could she?
Papias of Hierapolis, who lived circa 70–163 AD, in the surviving fragments of his work Exposition of the Sayings of the Lord relates that Mary, wife of Alphaeus is mother of James the Less
Papias of Hierapolis, who lived circa 70–163 AD, in the surviving fragments of his work Exposition of the Sayings of the Lord relates that Mary, wife of Alphaeus is mother of James the Less:

Mary, mother of James the Less and Joseph, wife of Alphaeus was the sister of Mary the mother of the Lord, whom John names of Cleophas.
So there were two sisters, both named Mary? That would have been very confusing! Don't you feel somewhat ridiculous trying to twist something into what isn't there? If this James the so called brother of Jesus had his own tomb, what happened to the so called tomb of Jesus?

Why can't anyone be certain where that is and why are there competing tombs, including one in Japan? Especially after all the shenanigans of flying angels, paralysed Roman guards etc?
“One would go mad if one took the Bible seriously; but to take it seriously one must be already mad.”
Aleister Crowley

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