Who goes to Heaven if You Get Eaten by a Cannibal?

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SEG
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Who goes to Heaven if You Get Eaten by a Cannibal?

Post by SEG » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:22 pm

A problem for Christians:If you get eaten by a cannibal as a baby, you become part of him. Who goes to Heaven and if it's you, do you come back whole again as adult? Or does the cannibal go to Hell with you inside?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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Moonwood the Hare
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Re: Who goes to Heaven if You Get Eaten by a Cannibal?

Post by Moonwood the Hare » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:09 pm

This is obviously derived from someone who has read the chapter on Aquinas in Bertrand Russell's History of Western Philosophy. It is hardly original. If you really care you can look up the answers in Aquinas or you can read Russell who is never less than entertaining.

Claire
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Re: Who goes to Heaven if You Get Eaten by a Cannibal?

Post by Claire » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:27 pm

SEG wrote:A problem for Christians: If you get eaten by a cannibal as a baby, you become part of him. Who goes to Heaven and if it's you, do you come back whole again as adult? Or does the cannibal go to Hell with you inside?
As with all those who undergo physical death, it's our immortal, incorporeal soul that carries over to the next life. Our soul can leave the physical body, and we receive our spiritual body, and the age we physically died at doesn't have to be the age we look.

At the moment of the baby's physical death, their flesh would obviously be in the physical body of the cannibal, but the immortal soul of the baby wouldn't be. And, the baby, although stained with original sin, would go to Heaven because they would have not actively sinned yet.

At the moment of the Cannibal's physical death, their soul too wouldn't remain in their physical body. And, whether the cannibal went to Heaven or Hell, no, the physical, and non-physical part of the baby wouldn't be in them.

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SEG
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Re: Who goes to Heaven if You Get Eaten by a Cannibal?

Post by SEG » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:24 am

Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:09 pm
This is obviously derived from someone who has read the chapter on Aquinas in Bertrand Russell's History of Western Philosophy. It is hardly original. If you really care you can look up the answers in Aquinas or you can read Russell who is never less than entertaining.
Well picked Moon! I heard this on a talk between Sam Harris and Bart Erhman the other day. Bart was talking about how Christians rarely think about going to Heaven via the Apocalypse while waiting in the grave for decades, but think more on how the soul floats up there via the hospital bed, or in this case the cannibal's pot. He said they rarely think about how you could possibly recognise anyone without a physical body and how you could think at all without a physical brain. How would a baby grow up without experiencing any earthly life?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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SEG
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Re: Who goes to Heaven if You Get Eaten by a Cannibal?

Post by SEG » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:30 am

Claire wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:27 pm
At the moment of the baby's physical death, their flesh would obviously be in the physical body of the cannibal, but the immortal soul of the baby wouldn't be. And, the baby, although stained with original sin, would go to Heaven because they would have not actively sinned yet.
So what happens with the yucky original sin?
At the moment of the Cannibal's physical death, their soul too wouldn't remain in their physical body. And, whether the cannibal went to Heaven or Hell, no, the physical, and non-physical part of the baby wouldn't be in them.
Have you any proof of this Claire, or are you making it up? That's what it sounds like.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Claire
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Who goes to Heaven if You Get Eaten by a Cannibal?

Post by Claire » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:32 am

SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:At the moment of the baby's physical death, their flesh would obviously be in the physical body of the cannibal, but the immortal soul of the baby wouldn't be. And, the baby, although stained with original sin, would go to Heaven because they would have not actively sinned yet.
So what happens with the yucky original sin?
Original sin is just an inherited human condition that causes one to be inclined to sin, or commit immoral acts in other words, brought upon by Adam and Eve. Whether you die a baby or an adult, you're no longer subject to that condition called original sin. Meaning you're not going to continue being subject to the inclination of sin. If you die after having lived on this Earth long enough to act on that condition, then you deal with the affects of your actions, whether in Purgatory or Hell.

If I'm someone who's already deemed worthy of Heaven, and I croaked right now, does that mean I'm clean enough to enter Heaven right away? No. Because although I'd no longer be subject to the human condition called original sin, I've still sinned on this Earth, and I wouldn't have died in a state of perfected love, which I couldn't have received or maintained in full in this imperfect world. I expect to visit Purgatory first, where I'll finishing becoming perfected in love, and therefore be ready for dwelling in Heaven.

A baby who died, and therefore is no longer subject to the human condition called original sin either, wouldn't need to visit Purgatory first, because they didn't live long enough to act on that condition here on Earth, and that's why they would go straight to Heaven.

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SEG
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Re: Who goes to Heaven if You Get Eaten by a Cannibal?

Post by SEG » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:45 am

Claire wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:32 am
SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:At the moment of the baby's physical death, their flesh would obviously be in the physical body of the cannibal, but the immortal soul of the baby wouldn't be. And, the baby, although stained with original sin, would go to Heaven because they would have not actively sinned yet.
So what happens with the yucky original sin?
Original sin is just an inherited human condition that causes one to be inclined to sin, or commit immoral acts in other words, brought upon by Adam and Eve. Whether you die a baby or an adult, you're no longer subject to that condition called original sin. Meaning you're not going to continue being subject to the inclination of sin. If you die after having lived on this Earth long enough to act on that condition, then you deal with the affects of your actions, whether in Purgatory or Hell.

If I'm someone who's already deemed worthy of Heaven, and I croaked right now, does that mean I'm clean enough to enter Heaven right away? No. Because although I'd no longer be subject to the human condition called original sin, I've still sinned on this Earth, and I wouldn't have died in a state of perfected love, which I couldn't have received or maintained in full in this imperfect world. I expect to visit Purgatory first, where I'll finishing becoming perfected in love, and therefore be ready for dwelling in Heaven.

A baby who died, and therefore is no longer subject to the human condition called original sin either, wouldn't need to visit Purgatory first, because they didn't live long enough to act on that condition here on Earth, and that's why they would go straight to Heaven.
That's - interesting. Does the trip to Heaven happen straight after death, or do you have to wait in your grave (or cannibal) until the apocalypse?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Claire
Posts: 1230
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Who goes to Heaven if You Get Eaten by a Cannibal?

Post by Claire » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:38 am

SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:Original sin is just an inherited human condition that causes one to be inclined to sin, or commit immoral acts in other words, brought upon by Adam and Eve. Whether you die a baby or an adult, you're no longer subject to that condition called original sin. Meaning you're not going to continue being subject to the inclination of sin. If you die after having lived on this Earth long enough to act on that condition, then you deal with the affects of your actions, whether in Purgatory or Hell.

If I'm someone who's already deemed worthy of Heaven, and I croaked right now, does that mean I'm clean enough to enter Heaven right away? No. Because although I'd no longer be subject to the human condition called original sin, I've still sinned on this Earth, and I wouldn't have died in a state of perfected love, which I couldn't have received or maintained in full in this imperfect world. I expect to visit Purgatory first, where I'll finishing becoming perfected in love, and therefore be ready for dwelling in Heaven.

A baby who died, and therefore is no longer subject to the human condition called original sin either, wouldn't need to visit Purgatory first, because they didn't live long enough to act on that condition here on Earth, and that's why they would go straight to Heaven.
That's - interesting. Does the trip to Heaven happen straight after death, or do you have to wait in your grave (or cannibal) until the apocalypse?
After physical death, if one doesn't need to go to Purgatory before Heaven, and they aren't going to Hell, then they go right to Heaven.

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Moonwood the Hare
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Re: Who goes to Heaven if You Get Eaten by a Cannibal?

Post by Moonwood the Hare » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:34 pm

SEG wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:24 am
5
Well picked Moon! I heard this on a talk between Sam Harris and Bart Erhman the other day. Bart was talking about how Christians rarely think about going to Heaven via the Apocalypse while waiting in the grave for decades, but think more on how the soul floats up there via the hospital bed, or in this case the cannibal's pot. He said they rarely think about how you could possibly recognise anyone without a physical body and how you could think at all without a physical brain. How would a baby grow up without experiencing any earthly life?
When N T Wright was promoting his book Surprised by Hope he suggested that many Christians understand heaven in something like the way Harris and Ehrman suggest. This quite surprised me but they may well be right. At any rate it is not the historic teaching of the Church.

However it is important to understand how Harris in particular works. The first move is to raise some arcane topic and disparage most Christians for not thinking about it while completely ignoring the fact that most people holding any worldview do not feel a need to explore its more obscure philosophical implications; how many materialists have explored the philosophical implications of materialism? The second move after someone points to all the people who have explored the philosophical implications of Chrisian doctrine is to suggest that this is typical theological obscurantism.

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Re: Who goes to Heaven if You Get Eaten by a Cannibal?

Post by SEG » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:03 am

Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:34 pm
SEG wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:24 am
5
Well picked Moon! I heard this on a talk between Sam Harris and Bart Erhman the other day. Bart was talking about how Christians rarely think about going to Heaven via the Apocalypse while waiting in the grave for decades, but think more on how the soul floats up there via the hospital bed, or in this case the cannibal's pot. He said they rarely think about how you could possibly recognise anyone without a physical body and how you could think at all without a physical brain. How would a baby grow up without experiencing any earthly life?
When N T Wright was promoting his book Surprised by Hope he suggested that many Christians understand heaven in something like the way Harris and Ehrman suggest. This quite surprised me but they may well be right. At any rate it is not the historic teaching of the Church.

However it is important to understand how Harris in particular works. The first move is to raise some arcane topic and disparage most Christians for not thinking about it while completely ignoring the fact that most people holding any worldview do not feel a need to explore its more obscure philosophical implications; how many materialists have explored the philosophical implications of materialism? The second move after someone points to all the people who have explored the philosophical implications of Chrisian doctrine is to suggest that this is typical theological obscurantism.
Well what do you think Moonward? Do you think that your soul floats up to heaven from the hospital bed that you die on?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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