Divine Intervention?

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Claire
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Re: Divine Intervention?

Post by Claire » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:12 am

Lich wrote:
Claire wrote:
Lich wrote:How do we know they aren't lying? Maybe the bible was planted in the car after the fire had been extinguished.
According to another article, it was the police who recovered a Bible from the front passenger seat. Based on what we know of this story, what reason is there to suggest they planted it after the fire? And, as far as I know, the driver hasn't denied having a Bible in their vehicle, nor denied the Bible recovered as being theirs, or accused police officers of planting.
I have even less reason to believe that a book made of flammable materials survived a raging inferno, and since I'm not gullible nor an idiot, I'm asking questions. The process of elimination is how one discovers truth in situations like this.
I agree about the importance of asking questions, and I'm asking the question what reason is there to suggest the police planted that Bible after the fire, based on what we know of this story? Also, again, as far as I know, the driver hasn't denied having a Bible in their vehicle, nor denied the Bible recovered as being theirs, or accused police officers of planting.

Lich
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Re: Divine Intervention?

Post by Lich » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:47 am

Claire wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:12 am

I agree about the importance of asking questions, and I'm asking the question what reason is there to suggest the police planted that Bible after the fire, based on what we know of this story? Also, again, as far as I know, the driver hasn't denied having a Bible in their vehicle, nor denied the Bible recovered as being theirs, or accused police officers of planting.
There IS no reason to believe anyone planted it, YET. There doesn't need to be reason to believe something is true for it to be true. Until something is proven false, it could be true, and none of the rest of that matters. One doesn't need accusations in order to have suspicions.
Delusion is denial of reality, and reality is truth. If the truth offends you, guess what you are.

Claire
Posts: 910
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Divine Intervention?

Post by Claire » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:21 am

Lich wrote:
Claire wrote:
Lich wrote:How do we know they aren't lying? Maybe the bible was planted in the car after the fire had been extinguished.
According to another article, it was the police who recovered a Bible from the front passenger seat. Based on what we know of this story, what reason is there to suggest they planted it after the fire? And, as far as I know, the driver hasn't denied having a Bible in their vehicle, nor denied the Bible recovered as being theirs, or accused police officers of planting.
I have even less reason to believe that a book made of flammable materials survived a raging inferno, and since I'm not gullible nor an idiot, I'm asking questions. The process of elimination is how one discovers truth in situations like this.
Lich wrote:
Claire wrote:I agree about the importance of asking questions, and I'm asking the question what reason is there to suggest the police planted that Bible after the fire, based on what we know of this story? Also, again, as far as I know, the driver hasn't denied having a Bible in their vehicle, nor denied the Bible recovered as being theirs, or accused police officers of planting.
There IS no reason to believe anyone planted it, YET. There doesn't need to be reason to believe something is true for it to be true. Until something is proven false, it could be true, and none of the rest of that matters. One doesn't need accusations in order to have suspicions.
You mentioned planting as a possibility. So, I asked if there was any reason at this time to suggest why it would be. You've answered no, and everything else you said was just obvious pablum.

Lich
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:10 am

Re: Divine Intervention?

Post by Lich » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:54 am

Claire wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:21 am
You mentioned planting as a possibility. So, I asked if there was any reason at this time to suggest why it would be. You've answered no. Everything else you said was just obvious pablum.
Pretty sad when pablum is needed to explain the obvious to someone, isn't it?

I'm not the one suggesting some invisible dude in the sky magically protected a book from being consumed in a fire and all but dismissing the far more rational explanations, such as it being planted, or looking into the nature of the fire itself and how it burned. A mind that believes in fairy tales usually finds a dragon in a bird's nest.
Delusion is denial of reality, and reality is truth. If the truth offends you, guess what you are.

Claire
Posts: 910
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Divine Intervention?

Post by Claire » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:50 am

Lich wrote:
Claire wrote:
Lich wrote:How do we know they aren't lying? Maybe the bible was planted in the car after the fire had been extinguished.
According to another article, it was the police who recovered a Bible from the front passenger seat. Based on what we know of this story, what reason is there to suggest they planted it after the fire? And, as far as I know, the driver hasn't denied having a Bible in their vehicle, nor denied the Bible recovered as being theirs, or accused police officers of planting.
I have even less reason to believe that a book made of flammable materials survived a raging inferno, and since I'm not gullible nor an idiot, I'm asking questions. The process of elimination is how one discovers truth in situations like this.
Claire wrote:
Lich wrote:
Claire wrote:I agree about the importance of asking questions, and I'm asking the question what reason is there to suggest the police planted that Bible after the fire, based on what we know of this story? Also, again, as far as I know, the driver hasn't denied having a Bible in their vehicle, nor denied the Bible recovered as being theirs, or accused police officers of planting.
There IS no reason to believe anyone planted it, YET. There doesn't need to be reason to believe something is true for it to be true. Until something is proven false, it could be true, and none of the rest of that matters. One doesn't need accusations in order to have suspicions.
You mentioned planting as a possibility. So, I asked if there was any reason at this time to suggest why it would be. You've answered no, and everything else you said was just obvious pablum.
Lich wrote:Pretty sad when pablum is needed to explain the obvious to someone, isn't it?
I know you'd like to believe you have to dumb yourself down to speak to others, instead of accepting that you just occasionally say something dumb, or obvious. But, don't beat yourself up over it.
Lich wrote:I'm not the one suggesting some invisible dude in the sky magically protected a book from being consumed in a fire...
Why not? You said you're not stupid enough to claim there is no god. So, it could be a possibility He exists and played a role in this story.
Lich wrote:I'm not the one suggesting some invisible dude in the sky magically protected a book from being consumed in a fire and all but dismissing the far more rational explanations, such as it being planted, or looking into the nature of the fire itself and how it burned. A mind that believes in fairy tales usually finds a dragon in a bird's nest.
But, you did suggest planting, and answered my question saying at this time there's no reason to suggest that planting, one of the far more rational explanations as you describe it, occured.

Claire
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Re: Divine Intervention?

Post by Claire » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:50 am

SEG wrote:Much, much, much, more likely is that ignition point wasn't reached for whatever reason.
What evidence is there to suggest that?

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SEG
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Re: Divine Intervention?

Post by SEG » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:06 pm

Claire wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:50 am
SEG wrote:Much, much, much, more likely is that ignition point wasn't reached for whatever reason.
What evidence is there to suggest that?
My 25 years of practical firefighting and study. Where's your evidence the Bible wasn't ignited in the car fire and was untouched despite sustained temperatures above the ignition point of paper?
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

Claire
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Divine Intervention?

Post by Claire » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:09 am

SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:
SEG wrote:Much, much, much, more likely is that ignition point wasn't reached for whatever reason.
What evidence is there to suggest that?
My 25 years of practical firefighting and study. Where's your evidence the Bible wasn't ignited in the car fire and was untouched despite sustained temperatures above the ignition point of paper?
I didn't say it wasn't. What did you find out in the story which suggests that explanation as being "much, much, much, more likely"?

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SEG
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Re: Divine Intervention?

Post by SEG » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:45 am

Claire wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:09 am
SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:
What evidence is there to suggest that?
My 25 years of practical firefighting and study. Where's your evidence the Bible wasn't ignited in the car fire and was untouched despite sustained temperatures above the ignition point of paper?
I didn't say it wasn't. What did you find out in the story which suggests that explanation as being "much, much, much, more likely"?
The story doesn't give enough information to suggest that it was anything other than it was much, much, much, more likely to be an ordinary event. Paper has never been found to stay unlit beyond its ignition point. You need to get over that fact.
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

Claire
Posts: 910
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:25 am

Re: Divine Intervention?

Post by Claire » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:58 am

SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:
SEG wrote:Much, much, much, more likely is that ignition point wasn't reached for whatever reason.
What evidence is there to suggest that?
My 25 years of practical firefighting and study. Where's your evidence the Bible wasn't ignited in the car fire and was untouched despite sustained temperatures above the ignition point of paper?
SEG wrote:
Claire wrote:I didn't say it wasn't. What did you find out in the story which suggests that explanation as being "much, much, much, more likely"?
The story doesn't give enough information to suggest that it was anything other than it was much, much, much, more likely to be an ordinary event. Paper has never been found to stay unlit beyond its ignition point. You need to get over that fact.
You said it's much more likely the ignition point of paper wasn't reached -- that's more specific than just any "ordinary event". And, what information was or was not provided to completely rule out an extraordinary event? Because the only thing that has stayed consistent in each of your explanations, was the rejection of anything miraculous, despite admitting to various degrees of there not being enough information.

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