Claire wrote:But, the actual true nature of it is objective. It exists despite our thoughts and experiences of it.
SEG wrote:So what is this "actual true nature of it"? How do you know that it's true?
Claire wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:27 am
Morality's true nature is that it's a spiritual construct designed by God,
Well, how do you know that?
As far as how I know there's truly objective morality, even people who don't believe in objective morality make moral decisions, prove there's a moral truth outside of them that they somewhat base their own morality on.
So you are saying that: "even people who don't believe in objective morality make moral decisions" which is correct, but it doesn't prove there's a moral truth outside of them that they somewhat base their own morality on. It may mean that they just have their own set of morals, I certainly do and I don't believe that they must have come from somewhere else. Where is your link that proves me wrong?
Claire wrote:So, they weren't really teaching you how to be good, they were just teaching you, and you decided "Sure, that sounds like it's morally sound, but who knows? Human reason is flawed, but it's good enough here, and my reason is telling me to follow them despite there being nothing objective for my reason to use as a beacon for doing the right thing."
SEG wrote:No, they were teaching me to be good as we both perceive it. Just like you and your imagined God perceive goodness. His opinions according to you have quite a few problems.
No, not according to me, because I never said God's "opinions" have quite a few problems.
I didn't say you did, I said his personal opinions have quiet a few problems. According to your belief in a personal god ( who I say has opinions)
And, how did you decide that anything your teachers/mentors taught you had any moral value?
By the same way you decide of your god. If his moral values were opposing yours you wouldn't want to worship him would you?
SEG wrote:Would you ever lie Claire? I bet you would if you are a caring person. My opinions are open ended and can change with new information. Your religious commandments on your god's opinions are not flexible and this brings you problems.
There's a difference between lying on the spot, flip flopping between different beliefs out of convenience, and truly changing beliefs based on new information. And, that doesn't include lying just because you have nothing else to say.
You didn't answer the question. Would you ever lie Claire?
SEG wrote:Correct, morals are different for all people.
You also spoke generally about how what's good/right is what promotes the thriving of all humanity and environment, and what does not is bad/wrong, indicating there's an objective morality, which you deny exists. Pick a lane -- morality is either subjective, or there is an objective morality, but people's perception of that morality is subjective.
There's no universal objective morality. If there were your god would be subject to it and everyone would believe in the same morals.
SEG wrote:Where did he get his nature? Did he decide what it was, or was it made for him?
God's nature wasn't made for Him because He always was.
How do you know that? If this is true, then he must have chosen his nature. If he didn't choose his nature, he hasn't got free will or someone made it for him.
His existence, with no beginning or end, is currently a mystery. But, that doesn't mean it'll always be so, because one day we'll be with Him in Heaven, and therefore no longer bound to our Earthly state of being, hence capable of comprehending certain truths we couldn't before.
How do you know that? Let me guess, God told you and it's in the Bible so it must be true?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.