God Makes Abortion a Form of Punishment

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SEG
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God Makes Abortion a Form of Punishment

Post by SEG » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:02 am

A main tenant of Christians is that abortion is morally wrong. Some get emotionally charged and say that it is equivalent to murder. Strangely Catholics believe that souls are injected at the moment of conception, yet they don't generally organise funerals for miscarriages. So for their god to threaten people who have disappointed him by throwing down their babies and slicing up the bellies of pregnant women is morally corrupt:
Hosea 13:16
New International Version
The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."
Anyone carrying a Bible while protesting at a women’s health clinic that offers abortion services should be aware that their book contains this scripture, and they should ask themselves if they believe that ripping open a pregnant woman’s belly is a just punishment for failing to meet God’s demands.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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SEG
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Re: God Makes Abortion a Form of Punishment

Post by SEG » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:49 pm

Do Christians here have any explanations re Hosea 13:16 ?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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Chapabel
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Re: God Makes Abortion a Form of Punishment

Post by Chapabel » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:25 pm

You're trying to paint an inaccurate picture of God. When people choose to live without God, then they must suffer the consequences. The passage in Hosea reveals what those consequences were for the people in Samaria. The women in Samaria lost their children against their will as a result of invading armies. Women who get abortions are willingly murdering their children. Huge difference there.

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SEG
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Re: God Makes Abortion a Form of Punishment

Post by SEG » Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:19 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:25 pm
You're trying to paint an inaccurate picture of God. When people choose to live without God, then they must suffer the consequences. The passage in Hosea reveals what those consequences were for the people in Samaria. The women in Samaria lost their children against their will as a result of invading armies. Women who get abortions are willingly murdering their children. Huge difference there.
God paints his own picture as a brutal monster in the Bible. All life is precious to him, unless it is a baby conceived out of wedlock or babies from “enemy” nations that don't worship him. He can commit any atrocity he wishes and it's fine by you. The Bible teaches that abortion is acceptable if God performs it or he commands it to be done through contaminated water or by brutal violence, like splitting the bellies of pregnant women.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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Chapabel
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Re: God Makes Abortion a Form of Punishment

Post by Chapabel » Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:46 pm

SEG wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:19 pm
Chapabel wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:25 pm
You're trying to paint an inaccurate picture of God. When people choose to live without God, then they must suffer the consequences. The passage in Hosea reveals what those consequences were for the people in Samaria. The women in Samaria lost their children against their will as a result of invading armies. Women who get abortions are willingly murdering their children. Huge difference there.
God paints his own picture as a brutal monster in the Bible. All life is precious to him, unless it is a baby conceived out of wedlock or babies from “enemy” nations that don't worship him. He can commit any atrocity he wishes and it's fine by you. The Bible teaches that abortion is acceptable if God performs it or he commands it to be done through contaminated water or by brutal violence, like splitting the bellies of pregnant women.
Not even close. God is such a good God that He will allow people to have exactly what they want. If they want a life void of His presence, He grants that, but along with those desires come the consequences. God did not commit the atrocities you mentioned. They were committed by Godless men on Godless people. God had no hand in that. To claim otherwise is dishonest.

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SEG
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Re: God Makes Abortion a Form of Punishment

Post by SEG » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:21 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:46 pm
SEG wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:19 pm
Chapabel wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:25 pm
You're trying to paint an inaccurate picture of God. When people choose to live without God, then they must suffer the consequences. The passage in Hosea reveals what those consequences were for the people in Samaria. The women in Samaria lost their children against their will as a result of invading armies. Women who get abortions are willingly murdering their children. Huge difference there.
God paints his own picture as a brutal monster in the Bible. All life is precious to him, unless it is a baby conceived out of wedlock or babies from “enemy” nations that don't worship him. He can commit any atrocity he wishes and it's fine by you. The Bible teaches that abortion is acceptable if God performs it or he commands it to be done through contaminated water or by brutal violence, like splitting the bellies of pregnant women.
Not even close. God is such a good God that He will allow people to have exactly what they want. If they want a life void of His presence, He grants that, but along with those desires come the consequences. God did not commit the atrocities you mentioned. They were committed by Godless men on Godless people. God had no hand in that. To claim otherwise is dishonest.
That one was a threatened punishment recommended by your god. Like a Mafia boss, he commands the atrocities, so he DOES have a hand in them. Isaiah 13:9,15-18 also contains this message from God:
“Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger. . . . Every one that is found shall be thrust through. . . . Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes . . . and their wives ravished. Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them. . . . They shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not spare children.
He directly caused violent and cruel deaths upon millions of men, women, children, babies, fetuses, and innocent animals according to your book. You know he did, excuse him of every single atrocity and are very comfortable with that concept.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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Chapabel
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Re: God Makes Abortion a Form of Punishment

Post by Chapabel » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:32 am

You need to read that passage in Hosea again before you accuse God of having a hand in it. Nowhere does it suggest God would do it or command anyone else to do it. The atrocities were carried out by evil men, not God.

The passage in Isaiah is referring to the end times following the Rapture of the church. The vast majority of people left behind will be Godless and lawless and will display the depravity of men without God. The only reason this hasn’t happened yet is because believers are still here with the Hily Ghost and He is preventing this from happening now. But once we’re gone, Katy bar the door.

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SEG
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Re: God Makes Abortion a Form of Punishment

Post by SEG » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:12 am

Chapabel wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:32 am
You need to read that passage in Hosea again before you accuse God of having a hand in it. Nowhere does it suggest God would do it or command anyone else to do it. The atrocities were carried out by evil men, not God.

The passage in Isaiah is referring to the end times following the Rapture of the church. The vast majority of people left behind will be Godless and lawless and will display the depravity of men without God. The only reason this hasn’t happened yet is because believers are still here with the Hily Ghost and He is preventing this from happening now. But once we’re gone, Katy bar the door.
I normally hate quoting Christian sources, but this bible concordance is from Christianity.com

Commentary on Hosea 13:9-16
(Read Hosea 13:9-16)
Israel had destroyed himself by his rebellion; but he could not save himself, his help was from the Lord only. This may well be applied to the case of spiritual redemption, from that lost state into which all have fallen by wilful sins. God often gives in displeasure what we sinfully desire. It is the happiness of the saints, that, whether God gives or takes away, all is in love. But it is the misery of the wicked, that, whether God gives or takes away, it is all in wrath, nothing is comfortable. Except sinners repent and believe the gospel, anguish will soon come upon them. The prophecy of the ruin of Israel as a nation, also showed there would be a merciful and powerful interposition of God, to save a remnant of them. Yet this was but a shadow of the ransom of the true Israel, by the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. He will destroy death and the grave. The Lord would not repent of his purpose and promise. Yet, in the mean time, Israel would be desolated for her sins. Without fruitfulness in good works, springing from the Holy Spirit, all other fruitfulness will be found as empty as the uncertain riches of the world. The wrath of God will wither its branches, its sprigs shall be dried up, it shall come to nothing. Woes, more terrible than any from the most cruel warfare, shall fall on those who rebel against God. From such miseries, and from sin, the cause of them, may the Lord deliver us.
and another concordance here: https://www.easyenglish.bible/bible-com ... ea-lbw.htm
Hosea now uses another picture (verses 7-8). God will be like an animal. God said earlier that he would ‘send animals against you’ (Leviticus 26:22). There are other places where God uses the same picture. He uses animals as pictures of *judgement (Isaiah 5:29-30; 7:18; 56:9). God will surprise Israel when he attacks her. It will be a strong attack. Assyria will be like these animals. Perhaps Assyria will be ready to attack Israel soon. This attack by animals will hurt her. It will kill people too. Israel has broken the *covenant and God will be very angry.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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Chapabel
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Re: God Makes Abortion a Form of Punishment

Post by Chapabel » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:23 pm

SEG, SEG, SEG...for starters the first quote you gave is from Matthew Henry, one of the most respected commentators in Christian teaching. I commend you for reading him. You bolded and underlined a section I suppose you believed supported your claim that God ripped open pregnant women's bodies to abort their babies. But if you read it again, Henry simply supported what I said. Life without God results in misery. Invading armies bring the woes to those who rebel against God. Henry did not say God did that.

Your second quote is somewhat deceptive. The author was plainly speaking of Hos.13:7-8 where God was addressing Ehpraim. Your original scripture was verse 16 where God is addressing Samaria. Now, in verses 7-8 God describes Himself as a leopard, lion and bear who would rend the caul of their heart. This is similar language found in the N.T. where Paul speaks of circumcision of the heart. It's is figurative and not literal. But notice also the very next verse as God pleads with sinners to turn to Him: Hosea 13:9-10 O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help. I will be thy king: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? God clearly says Israel had destroyed itself by rejecting Him, but He would restore them if they repented.

As long as sin is in this world, bad things will happen. Bad things happen to good people as well as to bad. Sin is the problem. Sin has always been the problem, not God. It's easier and more comfortable to blame God rather than take responsibility for the evil in the world, but He is not to blame. Men living without God are to blame.

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SEG
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Re: God Makes Abortion a Form of Punishment

Post by SEG » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:43 pm

Sin, the devil and bad people do not exist. Your life would be so much better without these silly concepts. A truly benevolent, forgiving and just god would not kill people directly or create an infinite hell for finite crimes. Yet your God has done both on a massive scale - according to your own beliefs. Time to get a better god or realise that gods only exist in the minds of men.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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