Be ready always to give ... a reason of the hope that is in you...

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SEG
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Re: Be ready always to give ... a reason of the hope that is in you...

Post by SEG » Tue May 07, 2019 2:08 pm

Og3 wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 7:39 pm
And are you conceding the point wrt William J. Murray?
No, he was still indoctrinated by religion on both sides of the fence and living in a Bible belt. I doubt very much about what he said about his mother.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Og3
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Re: Be ready always to give ... a reason of the hope that is in you...

Post by Og3 » Wed May 08, 2019 12:27 am

SEG wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 2:08 pm
Og3 wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 7:39 pm
And are you conceding the point wrt William J. Murray?
No, he was still indoctrinated by religion on both sides of the fence and living in a Bible belt. I doubt very much about what he said about his mother.
What's more, he no doubt loves haggis. I mean, what True Scotsman wouldn't, right?

(you really should read up on Madelyn Murray O'Hair. She was a piece of work. Even the least biased of newspapers couldn't gloss over her glaring issues).
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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SEG
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Re: Be ready always to give ... a reason of the hope that is in you...

Post by SEG » Wed May 08, 2019 5:06 am

Og3 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:27 am
(you really should read up on Madelyn Murray O'Hair. She was a piece of work. Even the least biased of newspapers couldn't gloss over her glaring issues).
Her issues weren't anywhere near her ex-employee and eventual murderer .
David Roland Waters, who had worked as a typesetter for American Atheists. Not only did Waters have previous convictions for violent crimes, there were several suspicious burglaries during his tenure, and he had pleaded guilty earlier in 1995 to stealing $54,000 from American Atheists. Shortly after his theft of the $54,000 was discovered, O'Hair had written a scathing article in the 'Members Only' section of the American Atheists newsletter exposing Waters, the theft and Waters' previous crimes, including a 1977 incident in which Waters allegedly beat and urinated upon his mother.
Her trusting nature in giving ex-jail birds a go was to her downfall. I'm sure if she had investigated him a lot further she would not have hired him.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Og3
Posts: 965
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:41 am

Re: Be ready always to give ... a reason of the hope that is in you...

Post by Og3 » Wed May 08, 2019 7:29 pm

It was not a trusting nature. According to her son, she went out of her way to hire felons, including accused or convicted murderers, and delighted in the bad reputation that it gave to American Atheists. Of course, since he is the only un-indicted witness still breathing (his mother, sister, and daughter all having been murdered by employees of American Atheists), there's no way to corroborate his story...
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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SEG
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Re: Be ready always to give ... a reason of the hope that is in you...

Post by SEG » Wed May 15, 2019 8:12 am

Og3 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:29 pm
It was not a trusting nature. According to her son, she went out of her way to hire felons, including accused or convicted murderers, and delighted in the bad reputation that it gave to American Atheists. Of course, since he is the only un-indicted witness still breathing (his mother, sister, and daughter all having been murdered by employees of American Atheists), there's no way to corroborate his story...
I find it improbable that she would hire because he was a murderer for the reason it would give a bad reputation. Good business people don't do stuff like that. It sounds more like vindictiveness on the part of the son and she hired quickly without fully checking his background.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Og3
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:41 am

Re: Be ready always to give ... a reason of the hope that is in you...

Post by Og3 » Wed May 15, 2019 8:03 pm

Check the sources. She was a very perverse person.
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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SEG
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Re: Be ready always to give ... a reason of the hope that is in you...

Post by SEG » Sat May 18, 2019 3:45 am

Og3 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:03 pm
Check the sources. She was a very perverse person.
She was a good friend to Frank Zindler over a number of years, I man that I have a lot of respect for. I think a lot of what you read is blown out of proportion by a Bible believing media. Her son seems to be a very vindictive person to say the things he has said about his dead mother.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Og3
Posts: 965
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:41 am

Re: Be ready always to give ... a reason of the hope that is in you...

Post by Og3 » Sat May 18, 2019 8:05 pm

SEG wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:45 am
Og3 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:03 pm
Check the sources. She was a very perverse person.
She was a good friend to Frank Zindler over a number of years, I man that I have a lot of respect for. I think a lot of what you read is blown out of proportion by a Bible believing media. Her son seems to be a very vindictive person to say the things he has said about his dead mother.
Bible-believing media? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That's a good one. :lol: :lol: :lol: You do read newspapers and watch TV, right? :lol: :lol: :lol:

From your second-favorite source, Wikipedia, about as neutral as you'll find:
In April 1945, while posted to a cryptography position in Italy, she began a relationship with officer William J. Murray, Jr., a married Roman Catholic. He refused to divorce his wife. Mays divorced Roths and adopted the name Madalyn Murray. She gave birth to her son with officer Murray after returning to Ohio, and named the boy William J. Murray III (nicknamed "Bill").[4]

In 1949, Murray completed a bachelor's degree from Ashland University.[6] She earned a law degree from the South Texas College of Law, but did not pass the bar exam.[7] She moved with Bill to Baltimore, Maryland. On November 16, 1954, she gave birth to her second son, Jon Garth Murray, fathered by her boyfriend Michael Fiorillo.[8] Their relationship ended, and it is believed that the boy, known as Garth, never met his father.

It was rumored that Murray sought to defect to the Soviet Union at their embassy in Paris in 1960, but that the Soviets denied her entry.[9][10] ... She had allegedly assaulted five Baltimore City Police Department officers who tried to retrieve her son Bill's girlfriend Susan from her house; she was a minor and had run away from home. Susan gave birth to Bill's daughter, whom she named Robin. Murray later adopted Robin.[13]

In 1965, Murray married U.S. Marine Richard O'Hair, and changed her surname. He had belonged to a Communist group in Detroit during the 1940s ... O'Hair appeared on The Phil Donahue Show several times, including the first episode in 1967. Later Donahue said that O'Hair was unpleasant in person and had mocked him off-camera for being a Catholic.[citation needed] ... Arrested for disorderly conduct in Austin in 1977,[7] ...
If you're arguing that she was a good moral person, you've got a long road ahead of you. You might be better off to abandon the idea of respecting O'Hair for association with Zindler, and instead respect Zindler for whatever reason in spite of his association with O'Hair.
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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SEG
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Re: Be ready always to give ... a reason of the hope that is in you...

Post by SEG » Sun May 19, 2019 3:39 am

Og3 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 8:05 pm
Bible-believing media? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That's a good one. :lol: :lol: :lol: You do read newspapers and watch TV, right? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yeah I do. Luckily the Australian media isn't dominated by Christianity like it is in the most Christian country of the world (according to population).
She was born in Pennsylvania and died in Texas, which are the 2nd and 6th most Christian states in the USA also according to population.
The third column below is the percentage reporting that religion is "very important" or "somewhat important" to their lives by U.S. state in 2014.[9] The fourth and fifth columns below are 2014 results from a separate study[10] Data for territories is from 2010.
Percentage of respondents in the USA stating that religion is "very important" or "somewhat important" to their lives, 2014
State, Territory,
or District Rank by population
Percentage stating that religion is "very important" or "somewhat important" Rank by religiosity (2014)[A] Percent Religious, 2014[10][A]
California 1 73% 45 73%
Texas 2 86% 13 82%
Florida 3 78% 36 76%
New York 4 72% 43 73%
Illinois 5 77% 30 78%
Pennsylvania 6 77% 26 79%
No surprise there that she wasn't popular!
From your second-favorite source, Wikipedia, about as neutral as you'll find
:... She had allegedly assaulted five Baltimore City Police Department officers who tried to retrieve her son Bill's girlfriend Susan from her house
Yeah, we all know how that works!
O'Hair appeared on The Phil Donahue Show several times, including the first episode in 1967. Later Donahue said that O'Hair was unpleasant in person and had mocked him off-camera for being a Catholic.[citation needed]
She comes across on TV interviews as level headed and a friendly person. She sure doesn't suffer foolish people who offer weak arguments. I haven't heard or seen any of her TV appearances previously, but after watching a few, a I now have a lot of respect for the way she carries herself, especially in debates. According to the media, you would expect a horrible woman screaming invective, but she actually argues quiet well. Have a look at this one for example: https://vilook.com/video/qKMFXLM8CJs/Ma ... t-Atheists Her Johnny Carson appearance did her justice too.
If you're arguing that she was a good moral person, you've got a long road ahead of you. You might be better off to abandon the idea of respecting O'Hair for association with Zindler, and instead respect Zindler for whatever reason in spite of his association with O'Hair.
From what I have read from Zindler and seen on TV, she was a ground breaking pioneer that had to happen. I think she contributed a lot to our world's rationality and stood up well for reasonable secular rights.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Og3
Posts: 965
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:41 am

Re: Be ready always to give ... a reason of the hope that is in you...

Post by Og3 » Sun May 19, 2019 8:13 am

You really should get out more, SEG. And you really need to question your assumptions.

For example, I can tell you that even here in California, ranked the most religious in that survey, it's not Christianity they're talking about. In fact, if I were asked to guess what state she lived in based solely on moral considerations, I'd have guessed California.
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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