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SEG
Posts: 1766
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:59 pm

I'm back!

Post by SEG » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:31 am

After a seven hour operation, my cardio team identified 3 major scars on my heart that can cause ventricular tachycardia. Two of them they were able to burn completely off, but the third one was one that required a permission to terminate as it was life threatening and it's not likely to cause me many problems if left alone.

I took a long while convalescing as my heart is still seared and I think I have caught an unrelated bug. Overall a very good result. Glad to be back!

That was a 7 hour operation folks, my earlier typo. Thanks for all the good wishes, it was very much appreciated.
Last edited by SEG on Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

captain howdy
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:48 am

Re: I'm back!

Post by captain howdy » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:38 am

Welcome back!! I KNEW you weren't gonna let them pesky Christians get the last word!!

Claire
Posts: 1083
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:25 am

Re: I'm back!

Post by Claire » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:00 pm

Welcome back!

I'm happy to see you're up and around!

Og3
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:41 am

Re: I'm back!

Post by Og3 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:35 pm

Welcome back, SEG. Glad to see that you're still on this side of the dirt.

A challenge for you now:
Prove, without begging the question nor using a circular argument, that your recovery is not the result of the prayers that I and many other Christians offered on your behalf.

All of science and all of logic is at your disposal, but you must prove it to mathematical certainty. Are you up to the challenge?
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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marcuspnw
Posts: 39
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Re: I'm back!

Post by marcuspnw » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:16 pm

Glad to hear it!

Humanguy
Posts: 257
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:48 pm

Re: I'm back!

Post by Humanguy » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:41 pm

Congratulations SEG! I'm really glad to hear that you're doing well.

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SEG
Posts: 1766
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:59 pm

Re: I'm back!

Post by SEG » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:53 pm

Og3 wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:35 pm
Welcome back, SEG. Glad to see that you're still on this side of the dirt.
Thanks, Og. Isn't it preferable for you to hope friends and family pass on ASAP to get to the side of God sooner?
A challenge for you now:
Prove, without begging the question nor using a circular argument, that your recovery is not the result of the prayers that I and many other Christians offered on your behalf.
No, I can't prove it wasn't prayers to God that did the trick, anymore than I could prove it wasn't anyone's prayers to invisible gremlins from Saturn.

What I do know is that the efficacy of prayers in a control group has never been proven by science, and the reverse affect of symptoms getting worse after having received prayers HAS been shown.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Og3
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:41 am

Re: I'm back!

Post by Og3 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:12 am

SEG wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:53 pm
Og3 wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:35 pm
Welcome back, SEG. Glad to see that you're still on this side of the dirt.
Thanks, Og. Isn't it preferable for you to hope friends and family pass on ASAP to get to the side of God sooner?
No, there's a still a chance you'll repent, especially in light of:
A challenge for you now:
Prove, without begging the question nor using a circular argument, that your recovery is not the result of the prayers that I and many other Christians offered on your behalf.
No, I can't prove it wasn't prayers to God that did the trick, anymore than I could prove it wasn't anyone's prayers to invisible gremlins from Saturn.

What I do know is that the efficacy of prayers in a control group has never been proven by science, and the reverse affect of symptoms getting worse after having received prayers HAS been shown.
So in other words, you'll never know if it was our prayers or not. I can see where that uncertainty may become a terrible burden for you.
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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marcuspnw
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed May 16, 2018 6:10 am

Re: I'm back!

Post by marcuspnw » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:21 am

Og3 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:12 am
SEG wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:53 pm
Og3 wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:35 pm
Welcome back, SEG. Glad to see that you're still on this side of the dirt.
Thanks, Og. Isn't it preferable for you to hope friends and family pass on ASAP to get to the side of God sooner?
No, there's a still a chance you'll repent, especially in light of:
A challenge for you now:
Prove, without begging the question nor using a circular argument, that your recovery is not the result of the prayers that I and many other Christians offered on your behalf.
No, I can't prove it wasn't prayers to God that did the trick, anymore than I could prove it wasn't anyone's prayers to invisible gremlins from Saturn.

What I do know is that the efficacy of prayers in a control group has never been proven by science, and the reverse affect of symptoms getting worse after having received prayers HAS been shown.
So in other words, you'll never know if it was our prayers or not. I can see where that uncertainty may become a terrible burden for you.
There really is no burden for an atheist since such a person considers God as unnecessary being, a mental construct of the believer. Our knowledge of the medical condition, the skill by those doing the procedure, our understanding of the biology of the human heart and the probability of success and risk are more than adequate to explain this successful outcome. An analysis of prayer would not be a burden as it would simply be a chance of examining the phenomena known as the placebo effect.

If an atheist is truly concerned whether God answered a prayer then he is on the road of ambivalence somewhere between atheism and theism.

Now there is a burden for the believer and that is one of guilt. If you didn't pray and the outcome was negative, that might trouble your conscience. If you did pray and the outcome was negative, then you might question God's plan or suffer a period of rebellion. The atheist is blissfully free of all such sorrows. For the Christian, he must console himself in the hope and belief that God answers all meaningful prayers in His time and His way.

But both believer and skeptic can be happy that Seg is still with us and that might be one of the few things on which we can agree.

Og3
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:41 am

Re: I'm back!

Post by Og3 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:48 pm

marcuspnw wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:21 am
Og3 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:12 am
SEG wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:53 pm

Thanks, Og. Isn't it preferable for you to hope friends and family pass on ASAP to get to the side of God sooner?
No, there's a still a chance you'll repent, especially in light of:
A challenge for you now:
Prove, without begging the question nor using a circular argument, that your recovery is not the result of the prayers that I and many other Christians offered on your behalf.
No, I can't prove it wasn't prayers to God that did the trick, anymore than I could prove it wasn't anyone's prayers to invisible gremlins from Saturn.

What I do know is that the efficacy of prayers in a control group has never been proven by science, and the reverse affect of symptoms getting worse after having received prayers HAS been shown.
So in other words, you'll never know if it was our prayers or not. I can see where that uncertainty may become a terrible burden for you.
There really is no burden for an atheist since such a person considers God as unnecessary being, a mental construct of the believer. Our knowledge of the medical condition, the skill by those doing the procedure, our understanding of the biology of the human heart and the probability of success and risk are more than adequate to explain this successful outcome. An analysis of prayer would not be a burden as it would simply be a chance of examining the phenomena known as the placebo effect.

If an atheist is truly concerned whether God answered a prayer then he is on the road of ambivalence somewhere between atheism and theism.

Now there is a burden for the believer and that is one of guilt. If you didn't pray and the outcome was negative, that might trouble your conscience. If you did pray and the outcome was negative, then you might question God's plan or suffer a period of rebellion. The atheist is blissfully free of all such sorrows. For the Christian, he must console himself in the hope and belief that God answers all meaningful prayers in His time and His way.

But both believer and skeptic can be happy that Seg is still with us and that might be one of the few things on which we can agree.
Hi, Marcus.

Good to see you around again. SEG and I have been discussing rationality of late (prior to his surgery) and we just completed a challenge in which I read and critiqued Carrier's _On the Historicity of Jesus_ and in which SEG read and critiqued C.S. Lewis' _Mere Christianity_. See the appropriate threads for details. We have also discussed (in the _How Do We Approach a New Proposition_ thread) that knowing a proximate cause (skill and knowledge in the Doctors) does not preclude an efficient cause or a final Cause (such as a God who gave them the talent and knowledge sufficient to complete the surgery successfully).

That is to say, stating that "Our knowledge of the medical condition, the skill by those doing the procedure, our understanding of the biology of the human heart and the probability of success and risk are more than adequate to explain this successful outcome" is too simplistic; such factors are sufficient as a proximate cause of the good outcome, but not as the efficient or the final causes.

SEG correctly states that I am wrong to ask him to prove a negative (that prayer was not efficacious in his case). It was a good catch on his part, and my challenge was offered facetiously in hopes that he would catch it. It is food for thought, adn frankly, I'd ahve been disappointed if he had undertaken it as a serious challenge.
But both believer and skeptic can be happy that Seg is still with us and that might be one of the few things on which we can agree.
Agreed.
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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