An evil god?

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Tim
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An evil god?

Post by Tim » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Hello.

Just because a possible god and the people who may worship him think god is good, doesn’t make it so.

I had a horrible thought recently. What if god exists and is evil?

Trump, Bush, Republican-lite Obama, Brexit, Blair, the impossibilifying of a Corbyn or Sanders government by the same old rightist busybodies.

Hope always dangled in front of us, only to be constantly and cruelly snatched away. It always seems to be the same old thing, and I find it depressing.

Better to be an atheist, perhaps?

Og3
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Re: An evil god?

Post by Og3 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:47 am

Best ever and always to seek the truth, where-ever it lies. There is a thread named "How do we approach a new proposition" which may help you in that endeavor.

A counter-question: If God were evil, how would we know? What measuring stick would we have? Wouldn't we be under the impression that Good was evil and evil good?
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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SEG
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Re: An evil god?

Post by SEG » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:45 am

Tim wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:14 pm
Hello.

Just because a possible god and the people who may worship him think god is good, doesn’t make it so.

I had a horrible thought recently. What if god exists and is evil?

Trump, Bush, Republican-lite Obama, Brexit, Blair, the impossibilifying of a Corbyn or Sanders government by the same old rightist busybodies.

Hope always dangled in front of us, only to be constantly and cruelly snatched away. It always seems to be the same old thing, and I find it depressing.

Better to be an atheist, perhaps?
I think it's safer for everyone to be an atheist Tim, just like nature intended it to be. Damn indoctrination ruins the minds of our kids!
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Tim
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Re: An evil god?

Post by Tim » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:23 pm

Hi SEG, good to see some familiar names from the old forum. I agree with your point, this idea that we’ll be taken care of in the next world can lead to complacency in us taking care of this one. There’s too much indifference towards climate change, pollution, deforestation etc. We’re leaving children a hellish looking earth.

Og3, I agree with seeking out the truth, I suspect it lies in psychology. People do not vote for the people and things I listed to make a better world for others or even themselves. They do it to visit hardship on others. There seems to be a big undercurrent of social darwinism, or something equally damaging.

We’d know a god were evil if he designed us in such a way that we’re invariably going to harm others in big numbers. I’ll look for the thread, thanks.

Og3
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Re: An evil god?

Post by Og3 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:55 pm

Tim wrote:We’d know a god were evil if he designed us in such a way that we’re invariably going to harm others in big numbers. I’ll look for the thread, thanks.
Let me rephrase the question: Suppose you lived in a country where "North" was called "South" and "South" was called "North" -- an analog to having a reversed moral compass. How could you objectively demonstrate that "North" was "North?"
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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SEG
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Re: An evil god?

Post by SEG » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:10 am

Og3 wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:55 pm
Tim wrote:We’d know a god were evil if he designed us in such a way that we’re invariably going to harm others in big numbers. I’ll look for the thread, thanks.
Let me rephrase the question: Suppose you lived in a country where "North" was called "South" and "South" was called "North" -- an analog to having a reversed moral compass. How could you objectively demonstrate that "North" was "North?"
Don't answer him Tim, it's a trap! How would you answer your own counter question Og? How would you know for sure that your god isn't evil?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Og3
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Re: An evil god?

Post by Og3 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:36 am

SEG wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:10 am
Og3 wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:55 pm
Tim wrote:We’d know a god were evil if he designed us in such a way that we’re invariably going to harm others in big numbers. I’ll look for the thread, thanks.
Let me rephrase the question: Suppose you lived in a country where "North" was called "South" and "South" was called "North" -- an analog to having a reversed moral compass. How could you objectively demonstrate that "North" was "North?"
Don't answer him Tim, it's a trap! How would you answer your own counter question Og? How would you know for sure that your god isn't evil?
If my God were evil, I would not know it; evil and good would seem reversed to me. In order to judge good and evil, you would need a standard candle -- a logical touchstone, a reference point, a plumb bob.
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

captain howdy
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Re: An evil god?

Post by captain howdy » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:25 am

Og3 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:36 am
SEG wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:10 am
Og3 wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:55 pm

Let me rephrase the question: Suppose you lived in a country where "North" was called "South" and "South" was called "North" -- an analog to having a reversed moral compass. How could you objectively demonstrate that "North" was "North?"
Don't answer him Tim, it's a trap! How would you answer your own counter question Og? How would you know for sure that your god isn't evil?
If my God were evil, I would not know it; evil and good would seem reversed to me. In order to judge good and evil, you would need a standard candle -- a logical touchstone, a reference point, a plumb bob.

Empathy. That's the touch stone.


Hey Tim---welcome back and nice question too. An evil God would explain the world we see around us as well as, if not better than a good God. Agreed
Last edited by captain howdy on Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SEG
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Re: An evil god?

Post by SEG » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:42 am

Og3 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:36 am
If my God were evil, I would not know it; evil and good would seem reversed to me. In order to judge good and evil, you would need a standard candle -- a logical touchstone, a reference point, a plumb bob.
Well, what if he were evil and evil and good were not reversed to you? What if he was only pretending to be good and the millions of people that he has murdered so far were killed only to satisfy his own evil intent? Your logical touchstone, reference point, plumb bob was your own conscience and sense of good and evil. Would you still worship him even though you realised he was indeed evil?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Og3
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:41 am

Re: An evil god?

Post by Og3 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:28 pm

captain howdy wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:25 am
Og3 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:36 am
SEG wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:10 am

Don't answer him Tim, it's a trap! How would you answer your own counter question Og? How would you know for sure that your god isn't evil?
If my God were evil, I would not know it; evil and good would seem reversed to me. In order to judge good and evil, you would need a standard candle -- a logical touchstone, a reference point, a plumb bob.
Empathy. That's the touch stone.

Hey Tim---welcome back and nice question too. An evil God would explain the world we see around us as well as, if not better than a good God. Agreed
The problem, Captain, is that in a malevolent universe, empathy would also seem reversed. We would be gratified and empathetic on seeing someone do what we now call evil... that is, if we witnessed a murder, our empathy would be with the murderer, and not with the victim. We would say to ourselves, "How dare that victim force the killer to murder him!" We would be angry and suspicious on witnessing good, because we would suspect that the benefactor was up to something. Offer me food? What? is it poisoned? Invite me into your shelter? Why? So you can kill me in privacy?

To hold "empathy" as a plumb bob pre-supposes a benevolent universe, or at least a neutral universe. Which returns us to the question: Why do we know that there is such a thing as good or evil?
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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