A True Believer Test

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SEG
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A True Believer Test

Post by SEG » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:49 pm

If Christians truly believe that their bibles have extremely valuable information, why aren't they pouring over it for hours every day, rather than watching tv, movies or sports? Do they really believe in the words of their God, or are they less than convinced? Time for a quick quiz!

Are You a True Believer?
Answer the questions below to see if you are a true believer in God. In each situation, you are allowed only one course of action. Pick the one that you would most likely follow if only allowed one choice.

1.You are deathly sick. You will

A. Have the most respected man of God pray over you.

B. Go to the doctor or hospital.

2. When your Christian friend dies you will

A. Say, “Damn it! Why couldn’t it have been my turn?”

B. Cry.

3. You would prefer to spend next week

A. In heaven (one-way ticket)

B. In Hawaii (two-way ticket)

4. You are caught in the middle of a big lake when a storm comes up and the waves are starting to inundate your boat. You will:

A. Command the storm to stop in the name of Jesus.

B. Act like “ye of little faith” and put on your life jacket.

5. Thieves with guns are invading your home. You will

A. Command them to stop in the name of Jesus.

B. Call the police.

6. You need an expensive operation to save your life that is not covered by insurance, and a rich relative offers to pay for it. You will

A. Tell him to give the money to support God’s work, and you will be thrilled to meet Jesus sooner.

B. Accept the offer.

7. You are retiring and have saved up a substantial “nest egg”. You will:

A. Give it to the church to further God’s work and trust in God to take care of you.

B. Use it.

8. There is a new gene therapy derived from chimpanzees. The doctor tells you that this may cure your fatal condition because humans are closely related to chimpanzees. You will:

A. Deny the therapy, telling him that humans did not come from monkeys.

B. Accept the therapy hoping that we are closely enough related that it will be effective.

9. There is a large piece of ledge sticking up in the way of where you need to put the driveway into your new church building. You will

A. Use your faith “as the grain of a mustard seed” that casts mountains into the sea to dislodge it.

B. Hire a contractor to blast it away.

10. When you hear God’s voice calling you to burn to death your child as an offering to him you will

A. With the faith of Abraham do as he tells you.

B. Visit a psychiatrist.

Score ten percent for each time you answered “A”. What is your final score? 80%-100% — You are a true believer! 40%-70% — You might be more secular than you realized. 0%-30% — Admit it! You are a damned atheist, and get on with your life!
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Og3
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Re: A True Believer Test

Post by Og3 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:53 am

honestly, SEG, this is just another two-fingers-up at Christians. You're not even trying to avoid straw men.

Examples: Question 1, my answer would be "both." God often works through doctors. Question 7, I have done A, and God did take care of me. Cashed in a (small) 401K to meet a pressing need at church (haven't retired as yet); now have assets I never expected from sources I never expected to have available.

But you will take both of those answers to conclude that I am simultaneously extremely gullible and also not sufficiently reliant on faith. You won't see the incongruity, because it's not about discussion for you; it's about mockery.
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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SEG
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Re: A True Believer Test

Post by SEG » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:27 am

Og3 wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:53 am
honestly, SEG, this is just another two-fingers-up at Christians. You're not even trying to avoid straw men.
Not at all, they are serious questions.
Examples: Question 1, my answer would be "both." God often works through doctors.
"Both" isn't an option, it is one or the other. Which one is it? The obvious one?
Question 7, I have done A, and God did take care of me. Cashed in a (small) 401K to meet a pressing need at church (haven't retired as yet); now have assets I never expected from sources I never expected to have available.
You are cheating here again OG. Cashing in a small asset isn't the same as a substantial nest egg is it? We are talking about a substantial nest egg like Matthew 19:21 here;
New International Version
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and giving the to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
He wasn't talking about selling your favourite "Christian Latest Hits" album and giving the cash to the poor, he was talking about selling ALL your possessions.

Have you done this, or are you wallowing in earthly possessions while the poor go hungry? How many hours of bible study do you put in every day? Or are you like most cafeteria Christians and rarely (if ever) study their bibles?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Og3
Posts: 965
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:41 am

Re: A True Believer Test

Post by Og3 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:39 am

SEG wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:27 am
Og3 wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:53 am
honestly, SEG, this is just another two-fingers-up at Christians. You're not even trying to avoid straw men.
Not at all, they are serious questions.
Examples: Question 1, my answer would be "both." God often works through doctors.
"Both" isn't an option, it is one or the other. Which one is it? The obvious one?
That both isn't an option proves that your test is a set-up. As I said.
Question 7, I have done A, and God did take care of me. Cashed in a (small) 401K to meet a pressing need at church (haven't retired as yet); now have assets I never expected from sources I never expected to have available.
You are cheating here again OG. Cashing in a small asset isn't the same as a substantial nest egg is it? We are talking about a substantial nest egg like
That was my only retirement plan available at that point, and having started a small business on a shoestring, with substantial self-employment taxes, my only hope of retiring and not living on the street was that God would graciously provide. And he has. I have no fears today about my eventual retirement.
Matthew 19:21 here;
New International Version
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and giving the to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
He wasn't talking about selling your favourite "Christian Latest Hits" album and giving the cash to the poor, he was talking about selling ALL your possessions.
In that context, the Rich Young Ruler believed himself righteous, and yet his money was his security. So the message to him showed him the barrier between him and God. Not every Christian is told to do this.
Have you done this, or are you wallowing in earthly possessions while the poor go hungry? How many hours of bible study do you put in every day? Or are you like most cafeteria Christians and rarely (if ever) study their bibles?
All I own is in Fief to the LORD, and is at his disposal. I tithe and give alms to the poor. I am in the middle of teaching a six week course on the Book of Hebrews -- a course I am making from scratch.

So I think I might open my Bible now and then...
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Og3
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Re: A True Believer Test

Post by Og3 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:50 am

What makes me laugh here, SEG, are that you make these assumptions about me with such confidence.

But I assure you that the poor eat of my bread, and the hungry eat from my table; the widow and the orphan have known my kindness, and the lonely have found in me a friend. And none of that will get me into heaven, as it is written, "Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Eph. 2:9)
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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SEG
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Re: A True Believer Test

Post by SEG » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:33 am

Og3 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:39 am
That both isn't an option proves that your test is a set-up. As I said.

Lol! Did you get away with that in your high school exams?
In that context, the Rich Young Ruler believed himself righteous, and yet his money was his security. So the message to him showed him the barrier between him and God. Not every Christian is told to do this.
Is that how it works? Jesus doesn't speak to everyone today in the NT with his words of wisdom, he speaks only to the characters in the Bible and leave it at that? Good to know.
I am in the middle of teaching a six week course on the Book of Hebrews -- a course I am making from scratch.

So I think I might open my Bible now and then...
So how many hours a day do you study apart from when you have to make up courses? Do you just pick up your Bible now and again?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Og3
Posts: 965
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:41 am

Re: A True Believer Test

Post by Og3 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:27 am

SEG wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:33 am
Og3 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:39 am
That both isn't an option proves that your test is a set-up. As I said.

Lol! Did you get away with that in your high school exams?
If a teacher were to present a question would no correct answer, then yes, one would get extra credit for pointing out a false dichotomy.
In that context, the Rich Young Ruler believed himself righteous, and yet his money was his security. So the message to him showed him the barrier between him and God. Not every Christian is told to do this.
Is that how it works? Jesus doesn't speak to everyone today in the NT with his words of wisdom, he speaks only to the characters in the Bible and leave it at that? Good to know.
Jesus told the woman at the well that she had had five husbands, and was currently living with a man outside of marriage. Does that mean that everyone on earth has been married five times and is now living in sin?

Context, SEG. I'm certain you've heard of the word.
I am in the middle of teaching a six week course on the Book of Hebrews -- a course I am making from scratch.

So I think I might open my Bible now and then...
So how many hours a day do you study apart from when you have to make up courses? Do you just pick up your Bible now and again?
The exact amount of time varies; I find that setting a specific goal is usually counter-productive. Wednesday, I reviewed all of the passages in that night's lesson. Thursday night, I looked at some of the passages in next week's lesson. Two separate nights, week before last, I was up past one AM running down commentary on the passage to be presenting in two weeks, where Hebrews refers back to a strange event in Genesis following the slaughter of the five kings. Matthew Henry had some interesting points on the Identity of the King of Salem. I also found commentary that disagreed with Henry.

Sometimes I read a chapter here or there. Other times I read until I am sated -- scripture becomes like a hunger at times.

Oh, sorry. You wanted me to give you a precise number of minutes or hours, and here I've gone and told you the truth even though it doesn't fit your bed, Procrustes. Well, just cut or stretch the answer to fit; you will anyway.
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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SEG
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Re: A True Believer Test

Post by SEG » Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:30 pm

Og3 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:27 am
If a teacher were to present a question would no correct answer, then yes, one would get extra credit for pointing out a false dichotomy
But it did have a correct answer. Your false false dichotomy would get marked wrong.
In that context, the Rich Young Ruler believed himself righteous, and yet his money was his security. So the message to him showed him the barrier between him and God. Not every Christian is told to do this.
Is that how it works? Jesus doesn't speak to everyone today in the NT with his words of wisdom, he speaks only to the characters in the Bible and leave it at that? Good to know.
Jesus told the woman at the well that she had had five husbands, and was currently living with a man outside of marriage. Does that mean that everyone on earth has been married five times and is now living in sin?
No, but his parables weren't meant to be taken literally, they were his teachings, meant to be taken on board by his adoring devotees. It sounds like you pick and choose which ones to take on board and which to ignore if they aren't "convenient"·
I am in the middle of teaching a six week course on the Book of Hebrews -- a course I am making from scratch.

So I think I might open my Bible now and then...
So how many hours a day do you study apart from when you have to make up courses? Do you just pick up your Bible now and again?
The exact amount of time varies; I find that setting a specific goal is usually counter-productive. Wednesday, I reviewed all of the passages in that night's lesson. Thursday night, I looked at some of the passages in next week's lesson. Two separate nights, week before last, I was up past one AM running down commentary on the passage to be presenting in two weeks, where Hebrews refers back to a strange event in Genesis following the slaughter of the five kings. Matthew Henry had some interesting points on the Identity of the King of Salem. I also found commentary that disagreed with Henry.

Sometimes I read a chapter here or there. Other times I read until I am sated -- scripture becomes like a hunger at times.

Oh, sorry. You wanted me to give you a precise number of minutes or hours, and here I've gone and told you the truth even though it doesn't fit your bed, Procrustes. Well, just cut or stretch the answer to fit; you will anyway.
No, that's fine by me. I usually average about an hour a day, but it's just a hobby for me. If I felt it was a major thing in my life, I would be spending 5-8 hours per day just like my Mormon friends - who are VERY serious about it.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Og3
Posts: 965
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:41 am

Re: A True Believer Test

Post by Og3 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:45 am

SEG wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:30 pm
Og3 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:27 am
If a teacher were to present a question would no correct answer, then yes, one would get extra credit for pointing out a false dichotomy
But it did have a correct answer. Your false false dichotomy would get marked wrong.
In that context, the Rich Young Ruler believed himself righteous, and yet his money was his security. So the message to him showed him the barrier between him and God. Not every Christian is told to do this.
Is that how it works? Jesus doesn't speak to everyone today in the NT with his words of wisdom, he speaks only to the characters in the Bible and leave it at that? Good to know.
Jesus told the woman at the well that she had had five husbands, and was currently living with a man outside of marriage. Does that mean that everyone on earth has been married five times and is now living in sin?
No, but his parables weren't meant to be taken literally, they were his teachings, meant to be taken on board by his adoring devotees. It sounds like you pick and choose which ones to take on board and which to ignore if they aren't "convenient"·
There are principles of exegesis, one of the principle rules of hermeneutics is to scrupulously avoid eisigesis -- But of course you don't care about the facts; you only want something to ridicule.
I am in the middle of teaching a six week course on the Book of Hebrews -- a course I am making from scratch.

So I think I might open my Bible now and then...
So how many hours a day do you study apart from when you have to make up courses? Do you just pick up your Bible now and again?
The exact amount of time varies; I find that setting a specific goal is usually counter-productive. Wednesday, I reviewed all of the passages in that night's lesson. Thursday night, I looked at some of the passages in next week's lesson. Two separate nights, week before last, I was up past one AM running down commentary on the passage to be presenting in two weeks, where Hebrews refers back to a strange event in Genesis following the slaughter of the five kings. Matthew Henry had some interesting points on the Identity of the King of Salem. I also found commentary that disagreed with Henry.

Sometimes I read a chapter here or there. Other times I read until I am sated -- scripture becomes like a hunger at times.

Oh, sorry. You wanted me to give you a precise number of minutes or hours, and here I've gone and told you the truth even though it doesn't fit your bed, Procrustes. Well, just cut or stretch the answer to fit; you will anyway.
No, that's fine by me. I usually average about an hour a day, but it's just a hobby for me. If I felt it was a major thing in my life, I would be spending 5-8 hours per day just like my Mormon friends - who are VERY serious about it.
Good for them. Curiously, the book of Hebrews kind of slams the door on a few key Mormon doctrines, so feel free to share the notes I've provided with your Mormon friends.

Also, I've have to confess a bit of envy at having 5-8 hours daily available to devote to Bible Study.
EGO TE ABSOLVO, and there's nothing you can do about it.

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SEG
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Re: A True Believer Test

Post by SEG » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:51 am

Og3 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:45 am
There are principles of exegesis, one of the principle rules of hermeneutics is to scrupulously avoid eisigesis -- But of course you don't care about the facts; you only want something to ridicule.
Well it becomes eisigesis when you don't accept what Jesus says to all his followers and apply it to just the character in the story. Like when he said, “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” in Mark 10:25, was he talking about camels trying to go through the eye of a needle and a rich man trying to enter the kingdom of God, or was he saying to all people to share your possessions with the poor?
Good for them. Curiously, the book of Hebrews kind of slams the door on a few key Mormon doctrines, so feel free to share the notes I've provided with your Mormon friends.

Also, I've have to confess a bit of envy at having 5-8 hours daily available to devote to Bible Study.
Yes they would argue you under the table from memory without lifting a finger to check. They KNOW their Bibles!

I wouldn't be envious. During their missionary training they rise at 5am for morning prayers for a couple of hours, go door knocking for 6-8 hours and come home for afternoon bible study for another couple of hours. They have dinner and have family discussions on the Bible at the meal table, and have another couple of hours Bible study before they retire for bedtime prayers. They are the most devoted people I know. Also the craziest.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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