How can you say for certain he was saved? How do you know his heart? How can you assert something you don’t even believe in? If you can affirm his salvation, why do you deny mine?
Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth
Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth
Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth
If the laws of physics are “ordered”, a higher power must have ordered it. You continue to stumble on this. Facts are stubborn things aren’t they?
Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth
There is a lot more literature in Scientology than in MV and thus probably more believable. It is still rubbish.
I don't have to prove there is no God, you are making an assertion, so the burden is on you to prove it. There is no requirement to prove a negative. You fail in 101 apologetics.And, to claim the universe doesn't require God to have order, because it's orderly now without God, is to base an assertion on another assertion without proving the first one. You assume there is no God, so you assume God is not needed.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.
Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth
And, if he goes back to God?Chapabel wrote:If he was saved to begin with, he wouldn't be denying God now. The fact that he rejects God now reflects the fact that he never accepted Him.
"He that keepeth his mouth and his tongue, keepeth his soul from distress" -- Prov. 21:23
Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth
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Last edited by Claire on Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"He that keepeth his mouth and his tongue, keepeth his soul from distress" -- Prov. 21:23
Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth
He did what was required, just like you. I would also say that a Voodoo priest that conducts all the required practices is saved in his own mind too. That doesn't mean that any of the bluster is true.Chapabel wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:20 pmHow can you say for certain he was saved? How do you know his heart? How can you assert something you don’t even believe in? If you can affirm his salvation, why do you deny mine?
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.
Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth
Claire wrote:If you want spiritual and philosophical truths from a science fiction author, I hear L. Ron Hubbard has a lot to say.SEG wrote:Ask Douglas Adams. He knew when he was a puddle.Claire wrote:What's your explanation for order in the universe?
Lol, you haven't even read the Work of Maria Valtorta.SEG wrote:There is a lot more literature in Scientology than in MV and thus probably more believable. It is still rubbish.
I've presented evidence/reasoning for why God does exist, and in response you didn't just stop at expressing disbelief. You went on to assume and assert God doesn't exist, and therefore assume and assert God is not needed.SEG wrote:I don't have to prove there is no God, you are making an assertion, so the burden is on you to prove it. There is no requirement to prove a negative. You fail in 101 apologetics.Claire wrote:And, to claim the universe doesn't require God to have order, because it's orderly now without God, is to base an assertion on another assertion without proving the first one. You assume there is no God, so you assume God is not needed.
Let's get back to basics on claims, evidence, and reasoning (CER):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCJacUvo778
Recap:
Step 1. Make claim(s)
Step 2. Follow up with evidence
Step 3. Provide reasoning
The trifecta of argument.
"He that keepeth his mouth and his tongue, keepeth his soul from distress" -- Prov. 21:23
Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth
I'm not making any claims, I don't believe your claim that God exists. If I said "God doesn't exist" you may have a point.Claire wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:29 pmClaire wrote:If you want spiritual and philosophical truths from a science fiction author, I hear L. Ron Hubbard has a lot to say.SEG wrote:
Ask Douglas Adams. He knew when he was a puddle.Lol, you haven't even read the Work of Maria Valtorta.SEG wrote:There is a lot more literature in Scientology than in MV and thus probably more believable. It is still rubbish.
You assume and assert God doesn't exist, and therefore assume and assert God is not needed.SEG wrote:I don't have to prove there is no God, you are making an assertion, so the burden is on you to prove it. There is no requirement to prove a negative. You fail in 101 apologetics.Claire wrote:And, to claim the universe doesn't require God to have order, because it's orderly now without God, is to base an assertion on another assertion without proving the first one. You assume there is no God, so you assume God is not needed.
Let's get back to basics on claims, evidence, and reasoning (CER):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCJacUvo778
Recap:
Step 1. Make claim(s)
Step 2. Follow up with evidence
Step 3. Provide reasoning
The trifecta of argument.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.
Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth
You don't only disbelieve God exists, but other gods too, and have claimed none exist:SEG wrote:I'm not making any claims, I don't believe your claim that God exists. If I said "God doesn't exist" you may have a point.
Additionally, you've claimed:...all ghosts, spirits, fairies, devils, angels, elves and gods are imaginary...
...you don't need any deities to have an orderly universe.
Last edited by Claire on Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
"He that keepeth his mouth and his tongue, keepeth his soul from distress" -- Prov. 21:23
Re: Why Faith Isn't a Reliable Pathway to Determine the Truth
*sigh* Cite or retract! You are telling fibs again about what you claim I have said....all ghosts, spirits, fairies, devils, angels, elves and gods are imaginary...
Additionally, you've claimed:
Yes, and you don't need any ogres or unicorns either....you don't need any deities to have an orderly universe.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.