Why God's Love is a Joke

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Chapabel
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Chapabel » Thu May 30, 2019 3:26 pm

Claire wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 3:56 am
But, despite disagreements, we are the LORD's flock who are supposed to be under one fold and one shepherd. Most families not only linked in spirit, but flesh and blood, fight and disagree, but do not separate. So, why should we, daughters and sons of God the Father, brothers and sisters to one another, a family linked in spirit if not also in flesh and blood, who fight and disagree, remain separated from one another? It's because we should not that the Catholic Church's doors are always open to those who have broken away.
What makes you think you are part of God's flock? Why do you consider yourself a daughter of God?

BTW, I am under one Shepherd...Jesus Christ the Good Shepherd. I'm not under the Pope because my allegiance is to Christ, not a man.

Claire
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Claire » Fri May 31, 2019 3:10 am

Rian wrote:
Claire wrote:Whether "you" referred to me or not, I merely stated I didn't say one could.
That's not "merely" what you said, and you were wrong about what SEG said about it.
Ah yes. I also said SEG was the one who got "every should read this book" out of what the Pope said. Well, I already caught I misread his post, but thank you anyway.
Rian wrote:
Claire wrote:
Rian wrote:At the most, you can get "I'm OK with publishing it" and that he thinks that some visions and revelations are authentic, but he won't give his opinion on whether or not MV's work is authentic.
"Publish it just as it is. There is no need to give an opinion as to whether it is of supernatural origin. Those who read it will understand. One hears of many visions and revelations. I will not say they are all authentic; but there are some of which it could be said that they are." -- Pope Pius XII

The most we can get is not: "I'm okay with publishing it". His words "publish it just as it is" constitute more than an imprimatur, because the word "imprimatur" merely means "it may be printed."

Additionally, in Father Berti's signed testimonial letter written on December 8, 1978, he writes: “I asked the Pope if we should remove the inscriptions: ‘Visions’ and ‘Dictations’ from The Poem before publishing it. And he answered that nothing should be removed."

Considering Pope Pius XII did not acknowledge all the visions and revelations as authentic, then after careful consideration commanded the Poem of the Man-God be published "just as it is" is significant. It's a positive opinion and authorization. At the same time, he used a choice set of words to prevent other conservatives from reacting harshly before reading first.
Is it your opinion that the Pope is definitely saying that MV's writings are authentic visions and revelations?
No, he's heavily implying it.
Rian wrote:
Claire wrote:There's a lot to address here. I'll respond asap.
No rush, my health doesn't permit me to be on much anyway.
Rest assured, I'm not rushing for you. It's a matter of personal preference. When finished, it'll be there for anyone in the present or future, to read at their leisure.
Rian wrote:
Claire wrote:
Claire wrote:And, I repeat: At one point, you claimed that since the introduction of Maria Valtorta, you've "researched quite a bit" about her, and "read quite a lot" of the writings. Your supposed analysis led to the conclusion the writings are "weird", that she's "significantly off in quite a few ways'', and therefore uncredible. Yet, you refuse to present evidence for these claims, so they're unsubstantiated, hence I feel a strong disinclination to believe you.
Why do you refuse to present evidence for your aforementioned claims?
Because I know what you're like about MV. You hardly listen to anyone on other topics, but on MV, you listen even less.
Generally speaking, one shouldn't present evidence for their claim(s) only when they think their audience will react ideally.

The formula is simple:

Step 1. Make a claim.
Step 2. Present evidence for claim.

Regardless of what one thinks about their audience, because it's not about them.

I know you understand this concept because, for example, when forum member KTR claimed: "God does not exist" without presenting evidence, and refused to do so, you didn't take that sitting down (rightly so). Yet, here you are refusing to follow step 2 regarding your claims. I hope you'll acknowledge and abandon your hypocrisy in this matter.
Rian wrote:
Claire wrote:
Rian wrote:And I don't believe you proved your case FOR her writings, so your claims are unsubstantiated.
Well, I haven't even presented my case yet. I've already told you I'm working on putting that together.
You've shared some things already; that's what I was basing my statement on. But seriously, only do it if you want to; don't do it on my account. The things I've seen in her writings are so off, IMO, that I don't see any way you could change my mind, and I doubt if I'll even read it. I don't want to give MV any more time than she's already taken away from me. You keep pushing her on this board like she's some authority, even on historical issues that the Bible is silent about, and no other Christian here (let alone the atheists) think she's a valid source in any way. Enjoy her if you want, but she's not for me. I've read enough of her.
Well, you refuse to get specific about what's "so off" in the writings, and when I reference what I've seen in the Work, you just repeat the same unsubstantiated claims. [sarcasm] You've got me on the ropes! Ouch. [sarcasm]

What "some things" are you referring to? And, you asked me to explain for you why I consider Maria Valtorta a valid source. I said I'd start putting together my response, and I've been working on that on and off for the past month. Now, you're basically telling me what a waste of MY time that's been, while complaining about how Maria Valtorta has taken time away from YOU. That kills me and here's why: You CHOSE to take the time, on multiple occasions over the years, even present day, to criticize her and Poem of the Man-God, asked me to explain why I consider her a valid source, and made claims about them without evidence, etc. It's YOU who's taken time away yourself and me.

Additionally, it's JESUS, not Maria V, who has authority. HE dictated to and instructed her to describe what she saw and heard, in the visions of the past she received. It's HIM I "keep pushing".

You argue no other Christian here, including the atheists, think she's a valid source, as if that means something. You're right it does, but not what you think. It means as of right now I'm alone in my opinion on the Work, at least on this forum. But, the opinions of those on this platform, including mine, do not dictate whether it's of supernatural origin or not.

Claire
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Claire » Fri May 31, 2019 8:55 am

Chapabel wrote:What makes you think you are part of God's flock? Why do you consider yourself a daughter of God?
I know His voice and follow Him (Jn. 10:27-28). I'm continually reborn through humility and childlike faith in the LORD (Mt. 18:2-5/Ga. 3.26).
Chapabel wrote:I am under one Shepherd...Jesus Christ the Good Shepherd. I'm not under the Pope because my allegiance is to Christ, not a man.
Then hang up your pastoral robes, and swap the pulpit for a pew, asst. pastor.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Chapabel » Fri May 31, 2019 9:39 am

Claire wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:55 am
Chapabel wrote:What makes you think you are part of God's flock? Why do you consider yourself a daughter of God?
I know His voice and follow Him (Jn. 10:27-28). I'm continually reborn through humility and childlike faith in the LORD (Mt. 18:2-5/Ga. 3.26).
Chapabel wrote:I am under one Shepherd...Jesus Christ the Good Shepherd. I'm not under the Pope because my allegiance is to Christ, not a man.
Then hang up your pastoral robes, and swap the pulpit for a pew, asst. pastor.
Total bunk. Again you reveal you know nothing about salvation. I pity you.

Claire
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Claire » Fri May 31, 2019 4:03 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:What makes you think you are part of God's flock? Why do you consider yourself a daughter of God?
I know His voice and follow Him (Jn. 10:27-28). I'm continually reborn through humility and childlike faith in the LORD (Mt. 18:2-5/Ga. 3:26).
Total bunk.
Careful. That's the LORD's words you're speaking about.
Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:I am under one Shepherd...Jesus Christ the Good Shepherd. I'm not under the Pope because my allegiance is to Christ, not a man.
Then hang up your pastoral robes, and swap the pulpit for a pew, asst. pastor.
How about it?

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Chapabel
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Chapabel » Fri May 31, 2019 5:43 pm

Claire wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 4:03 pm
Chapabel wrote:
Claire wrote:
I know His voice and follow Him (Jn. 10:27-28). I'm continually reborn through humility and childlike faith in the LORD (Mt. 18:2-5/Ga. 3:26).
Total bunk.
Careful. That's the LORD's words you're speaking about.
Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:I am under one Shepherd...Jesus Christ the Good Shepherd. I'm not under the Pope because my allegiance is to Christ, not a man.
Then hang up your pastoral robes, and swap the pulpit for a pew, asst. pastor.
How about it?
The Word of God isn’t bunk, but your inability to properly interpret and apply the Word is bunk. You have no idea what it takes to be a child of God. Believing in Jesus is not enough. Even the demons believe. How about you get saved Claire.

Claire
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Claire » Fri May 31, 2019 6:19 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:What makes you think you are part of God's flock? Why do you consider yourself a daughter of God?
I know His voice and follow Him (Jn. 10:27-28). I'm continually reborn through humility and childlike faith in the LORD (Mt. 18:2-5/Ga. 3:26).
...your inability to properly interpret and apply the Word is bunk. You have no idea what it takes to be a child of God. Believing in Jesus is not enough. Even the demons believe.
Sincere faith (trust) in the LORD breeds good works, revealing one born of God (1 Jn 4:7).
Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:I am under one Shepherd...Jesus Christ the Good Shepherd. I'm not under the Pope because my allegiance is to Christ, not a man.
Then hang up your pastoral robes, and swap the pulpit for a pew, asst. pastor.
How about it?
Last edited by Claire on Fri May 31, 2019 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Chapabel » Fri May 31, 2019 7:05 pm

I don’t wear robes. How about you get saved?

Claire
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Claire » Fri May 31, 2019 8:08 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:What makes you think you are part of God's flock? Why do you consider yourself a daughter of God?
I know His voice and follow Him (Jn. 10:27-28). I'm continually reborn through humility and childlike faith in the LORD (Mt. 18:2-5/Ga. 3:26).
...your inability to properly interpret and apply the Word is bunk. You have no idea what it takes to be a child of God. Believing in Jesus is not enough. Even the demons believe.
Sincere faith (trust) in the LORD breeds good works, revealing one born of God (1 Jn 4:7).
Chapabel wrote:How about you get saved?
How am I not saved?
Chapabel wrote:
Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:I am under one Shepherd...Jesus Christ the Good Shepherd. I'm not under the Pope because my allegiance is to Christ, not a man.
Then hang up your pastoral robes, and swap the pulpit for a pew, asst. pastor.
I don’t wear robes.
Suits? Whatever your choice of apparel, how about it?

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Chapabel
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Chapabel » Fri May 31, 2019 10:20 pm

Claire wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:08 pm


How am I not saved?
Chapabel wrote:
I don’t wear robes.
Suits? Whatever your choice of apparel, how about it?
You cannot give any type of testimony to being born again. You have no conversion experience. And how about what? You’re asking foolish questions again.

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