Why God's Love is a Joke

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Claire
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Claire » Fri May 31, 2019 10:50 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:How about you get saved?
How am I not saved?
You cannot give any type of testimony to being born again. You have no conversion experience.
I was born again of water when baptized, and of the Spirit when I became as a child in faith, so I shall enter Heaven (Matthew 18:3/John 3:3-5). Sincere faith (trust) in the LORD breeds good works, revealing one born of God (1 Jn 4:7).
Chapabel wrote:
Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:I am under one Shepherd...Jesus Christ the Good Shepherd. I'm not under the Pope because my allegiance is to Christ, not a man.
Then hang up your pastoral robes, and swap the pulpit for a pew, asst. pastor.
I don’t wear robes.
Chapabel wrote:
Claire wrote:Suits? Whatever your choice of apparel, how about it?
And how about what?
You stepping down as pastor, or shepherd.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Chapabel » Fri May 31, 2019 11:02 pm

Claire wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 10:50 pm
Chapabel wrote:
Claire wrote:
How am I not saved?
You cannot give any type of testimony to being born again. You have no conversion experience.
I was born again when I became as a child in faith, so I shall enter Heaven (Matthew 18:3/John 3:3). Sincere faith (trust) in the LORD breeds good works, revealing one born of God (1 Jn 4:7).
Chapabel wrote:
Claire wrote:
Then hang up your pastoral robes, and swap the pulpit for a pew, asst. pastor.
I don’t wear robes.
Chapabel wrote:
Claire wrote:Suits? Whatever your choice of apparel, how about it?
And how about what?
You stepping down as pastor, or shepherd.
When I’ve asked you in the past about being born again you said you’ve always been a believer. Now you’re claiming a salvation experience. So which is it Claire? If you’ve been saved please share your conversion experience.

Why would I step down from being the associate pastor?

Claire
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Claire » Fri May 31, 2019 11:23 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Claire wrote:
Chapabel wrote:You cannot give any type of testimony to being born again. You have no conversion experience.
I was born again of water when baptized, and of the Spirit when I became as a child in faith, so I shall enter Heaven (Mt. 18:3/John 3:3-5). Sincere faith (trust) in the LORD breeds good works, revealing one born of God (1 Jn 4:7).
When I’ve asked you in the past about being born again you said you’ve always been a believer. Now you’re claiming a salvation experience. So which is it Claire?
I said I've never believed the LORD didn't exist, but I didn't say that meant I was born again, even demons believe (Jm. 2:19). I became born again of water when baptized, and of the Spirit when I became as a child in faith, so I shall enter Heaven (Mt. 18:3/Jn. 3:3-5). Sincere faith (trust) in the LORD breeds good works, revealing one born of God (1 Jn 4:7).
Chapabel wrote:Why would I step down from being the associate pastor?
You say there's one shepherd, the good shepherd, Jesus Christ.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Chapabel » Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:41 am

Claire wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 11:23 pm
Chapabel wrote:
Claire wrote:
I was born again of water when baptized, and of the Spirit when I became as a child in faith, so I shall enter Heaven (Mt. 18:3/John 3:3-5). Sincere faith (trust) in the LORD breeds good works, revealing one born of God (1 Jn 4:7).
When I’ve asked you in the past about being born again you said you’ve always been a believer. Now you’re claiming a salvation experience. So which is it Claire?
I said I've never believed the LORD didn't exist, but I didn't say that meant I was born again, even demons believe (Jm. 2:19). I became born again of water when baptized, and of the Spirit when I became as a child in faith, so I shall enter Heaven (Mt. 18:3/Jn. 3:3-5). Sincere faith (trust) in the LORD breeds good works, revealing one born of God (1 Jn 4:7). So, how am I not saved?
Chapabel wrote:Why would I step down from being the associate pastor?
You say there's one shepherd, the good shepherd, Jesus Christ.
There’s no such thing as being born again of water. Having a child-like faith can lead to saving faith in Christ. However, having only a child-like faith does not mean you’re saved, it means you’re gullible. See, you’re totally clueless concerning salvation.

I am an under-shepherd at our church. Christ is the Good Shepherd. I help feed the sheep but Christ is the authority. This is Biblically based which means you won’t find that in your poem. That’s why you’re oblivious to the principle.

Claire
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Claire » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:52 am

Chapabel wrote:There’s no such thing as being born again of water. Having a child-like faith can lead to saving faith in Christ. However, having only a child-like faith does not mean you’re saved, it means you’re gullible. See, you’re totally clueless concerning salvation.
Jesus speaks of being born again of water and the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:5), and that unless one becomes as a child in faith, they cannot enter the kingdom of God (Mt. 18:3). Sincere faith (trust) in the LORD breeds good works, revealing one born of God (1 Jn 4:7). If you think it's gullible to have childlike faith in the LORD, so be it, for it leads souls to Heaven.
Chapabel wrote:I am an under-shepherd at our church. Christ is the Good Shepherd. I help feed the sheep but Christ is the authority. This is Biblically based which means you won’t find that in your poem. That’s why you’re oblivious to the principle.
IT IS biblically based, and if you read the Poem of the Man-God, you'd know it's found in there as well.

My point was this: Within your Church's hierarchy you're considered a shepherd. In Catholicism, the Pope is considered a shepherd, as is clearly stated in the Bible. So, do not condemn the usage of the word "shepherd" to the Pope, while being blind to your own hypocrisy regarding your position and calling.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Chapabel » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:14 am

Claire wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:52 am
Jesus speaks of being born again of water and the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:5), and that unless one becomes as a child in faith, they cannot enter the kingdom of God (Mt. 18:3). Sincere faith (trust) in the LORD breeds good works, revealing one born of God (1 Jn 4:7). If you think it's gullible to have childlike faith in the LORD, so be it, for it leads souls to Heaven.
You have completely screwed this up. Jesus says nothing about being born again of water and the Spirit. John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Being born again refers only to the spiritual birth since every person has already experienced the physical birth. You fail to see how misinformed you are concerning the doctrine of salvation. It's not gullible to have child-like faith in Christ. Go back and read exactly what I wrote. For crying out loud. Again, I don't know if you're trying to be cute or you really are this stupid.
In Catholicism, the Pope is considered a shepherd, as is clearly stated in the Bible. So, do not condemn the usage of the word "shepherd" to the Pope, while being blind to your own hypocrisy regarding your position and calling.
This is another example of either your deception or stupidity. You originally claimed Jesus wants all His children under one shepherd in reference to the Pope. I said I was under one Shepherd, Christ. Then you started your little rant about me hanging up my robes. You have twisted this conversation into something ridicules. I don't condemn the use of the word "shepherd". I just refuse to allow the Pope be my shepherd because Jesus already is. This is why people find it so frustrating dealing with you. You twist, distort and manipulate posts.

Claire
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Claire » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:08 pm

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Last edited by Claire on Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Claire
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Claire » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:18 am

Rian wrote:
Claire wrote:
Rian wrote:At the most, you can get "I'm OK with publishing it" and that he thinks that some visions and revelations are authentic, but he won't give his opinion on whether or not MV's work is authentic.
"Publish it just as it is. There is no need to give an opinion as to whether it is of supernatural origin. Those who read it will understand. One hears of many visions and revelations. I will not say they are all authentic; but there are some of which it could be said that they are." -- Pope Pius XII

The most we can get is not: "I'm okay with publishing it". His words "publish it just as it is" constitute more than an imprimatur, because the word "imprimatur" merely means "it may be printed."

Additionally, in Father Berti's signed testimonial letter written on December 8, 1978, he writes: “I asked the Pope if we should remove the inscriptions: ‘Visions’ and ‘Dictations’ from The Poem before publishing it. And he answered that nothing should be removed."

Considering Pope Pius XII did not acknowledge all the visions and revelations as authentic, then after careful consideration commanded the Poem of the Man-God be published "just as it is" is significant. It's a positive opinion and authorization. At the same time, he used a choice set of words to prevent other conservatives from reacting harshly before reading first.
Is it your opinion that the Pope is definitely saying that MV's writings are authentic visions and revelations?
No, he's heavily implying it.
Rian wrote:
Claire wrote:
Claire wrote:And, I repeat: At one point, you claimed that since the introduction of Maria Valtorta, you've "researched quite a bit" about her, and "read quite a lot" of the writings. Your supposed analysis led to the conclusion the writings are "weird", that she's "significantly off in quite a few ways'', and therefore uncredible. Yet, you refuse to present evidence for these claims, so they're unsubstantiated, hence I feel a strong disinclination to believe you.
Why do you refuse to present evidence for your aforementioned claims?
Because I know what you're like about MV. You hardly listen to anyone on other topics, but on MV, you listen even less.
Generally speaking, one shouldn't present evidence for their claim(s) only when they think their audience will react ideally.

Step 1. Make a claim.
Step 2. Present evidence for claim -- regardless of what one thinks about their audience, because it's not about them.

I know you understand this concept because, for example, when forum member KTR claimed: "God does not exist" without presenting evidence, and refused to do so, you didn't take that sitting down (rightly so). Yet, here you are refusing to follow step 2 regarding your claims. I hope you'll acknowledge and abandon your hypocrisy in this matter.
Rian wrote:
Claire wrote:
Rian wrote:And I don't believe you proved your case FOR her writings, so your claims are unsubstantiated.
Well, I haven't even presented my case yet. I've already told you I'm working on putting that together.
You've shared some things already; that's what I was basing my statement on. But seriously, only do it if you want to; don't do it on my account. The things I've seen in her writings are so off, IMO, that I don't see any way you could change my mind, and I doubt if I'll even read it. I don't want to give MV any more time than she's already taken away from me. You keep pushing her on this board like she's some authority, even on historical issues that the Bible is silent about, and no other Christian here (let alone the atheists) think she's a valid source in any way. Enjoy her if you want, but she's not for me. I've read enough of her.
Well, you refuse to get specific about what's "so off" in the writings, and when I reference what I've seen in the Work, you just repeat the same unsubstantiated claims.

What "some things" are you referring to? And, you asked me to explain for you why I consider Maria Valtorta a valid source. I said I'd start putting together my response, and I've been working on that on and off for the past month. Now, you're basically telling me what a waste of MY time that's been, while complaining about how Maria Valtorta has taken time away from YOU. That kills me and here's why: You CHOSE to take the time, on multiple occasions over the years, even present day, to criticize her and Poem of the Man-God, asked me to explain why I consider her a valid source, and made claims about them without evidence, etc. It's YOU who's taken time away yourself and me.

Additionally, it's JESUS, not Maria V, who has authority. HE dictated to and instructed her to describe what she saw and heard, in the visions of the past she received. It's HIM I "keep pushing".

You argue no other Christian here, including the atheists, think she's a valid source, as if that means something. You're right it does, but not what you think. It means as of right now I'm alone in my opinion on the Work, at least on this forum. But, the opinions of those on this platform, including mine, do not dictate whether it's of supernatural origin or not.

Rian
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Rian » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:29 am

You're completely delusional about me.

Claire
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Re: Why God's Love is a Joke

Post by Claire » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:03 am

Rian wrote:You're completely delusional about me.
That isn't a suitable answer/counter-argument to any of my aforementioned questions/arguments.

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