Rian wrote: Claire wrote:
Rian wrote:At the most, you can get "I'm OK with publishing it" and that he thinks that some visions and revelations are authentic, but he won't give his opinion on whether or not MV's work is authentic.
"Publish it just as it is. There is no need to give an opinion as to whether it is of supernatural origin. Those who read it will understand. One hears of many visions and revelations. I will not say they are all authentic; but there are some of which it could be said that they are." -- Pope Pius XII
The most we can get is not: "I'm okay with publishing it". His words "publish it just as it is" constitute more than an imprimatur, because the word "imprimatur" merely means "it may be printed."
Additionally, in Father Berti's signed testimonial letter written on December 8, 1978, he writes: “I asked the Pope if we should remove the inscriptions: ‘Visions’ and ‘Dictations’ from The Poem before publishing it. And he answered that nothing should be removed."
Considering Pope Pius XII did not acknowledge all the visions and revelations as authentic, then after careful consideration commanded the Poem of the Man-God be published "just as it is" is significant. It's a positive opinion and authorization. At the same time, he used a choice set of words to prevent other conservatives from reacting harshly before reading first.
Is it your opinion that the Pope is definitely saying that MV's writings are authentic visions and revelations?
No, he's heavily implying it.
Rian wrote: Claire wrote:
Claire wrote:And, I repeat: At one point, you claimed that since the introduction of Maria Valtorta, you've "researched quite a bit" about her, and "read quite a lot" of the writings. Your supposed analysis led to the conclusion the writings are "weird", that she's "significantly off in quite a few ways'', and therefore uncredible. Yet, you refuse to present evidence for these claims, so they're unsubstantiated, hence I feel a strong disinclination to believe you.
Why do you refuse to present evidence for your aforementioned claims?
Because I know what you're like about MV. You hardly listen to anyone on other topics, but on MV, you listen even less.
Generally speaking, one shouldn't present evidence for their claim(s) only when they think their audience will react ideally.
Step 1. Make a claim.
Step 2. Present evidence for claim -- regardless of what one thinks about their audience, because it's not about them.
I know you understand this concept because, for example, when forum member KTR claimed: "God does not exist" without presenting evidence, and refused to do so, you didn't take that sitting down (rightly so). Yet, here you are refusing to follow step 2 regarding your claims. I hope you'll acknowledge and abandon your hypocrisy in this matter.
Rian wrote: Claire wrote:
Rian wrote:And I don't believe you proved your case FOR her writings, so your claims are unsubstantiated.
Well, I haven't even presented my case yet. I've already told you I'm working on putting that together.
You've shared some things already; that's what I was basing my statement on. But seriously, only do it if you want to; don't do it on my account. The things I've seen in her writings are so off, IMO, that I don't see any way you could change my mind, and I doubt if I'll even read it. I don't want to give MV any more time than she's already taken away from me. You keep pushing her on this board like she's some authority, even on historical issues that the Bible is silent about, and no other Christian here (let alone the atheists) think she's a valid source in any way. Enjoy her if you want, but she's not for me. I've read enough of her.
Well, you refuse to get specific about what's "so off" in the writings, and when I reference what I've seen in the Work, you just repeat the same unsubstantiated claims.
What "some things" are you referring to? And, you asked me to explain for you why I consider Maria Valtorta a valid source. I said I'd start putting together my response, and I've been working on that on and off for the past month. Now, you're basically telling me what a waste of MY time that's been, while complaining about how Maria Valtorta has taken time away from YOU. That kills me and here's why: You CHOSE to take the time, on multiple occasions over the years, even present day, to criticize her and Poem of the Man-God
, asked me to explain why I consider her a valid source, and made claims about them without evidence, etc. It's YOU who's taken time away yourself and me.
Additionally, it's JESUS, not Maria V, who has authority. HE dictated to and instructed her to describe what she saw and heard, in the visions of the past she received. It's HIM I "keep pushing".
You argue no other Christian here, including the atheists, think she's a valid source, as if that means something. You're right it does, but not what you think. It means as of right now I'm alone in my opinion on the Work, at least on this forum. But, the opinions of those on this platform, including mine, do not dictate whether it's of supernatural origin or not.