If Jewish Eyewitnesses Didn't Believe in Jesus...

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SEG
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Re: If Jewish Eyewitnesses Didn't Believe in Jesus...

Post by SEG » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:30 pm

Sorry, I forgot to continue with this post, still on holidays. Just landed in Vancouver.
SEG wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:16 pm
But he appeared before 500 after the Romans crucified him to death. Surely they were mostly Jewish and spread the word around? That news would have spread like wildfire far and wide. Or do you think that story was merely a theological construct?
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:08 pm
I don't find arguments about what should have happened or what must have happened in the face of unusual events very convincing. They always seem to me to stem from a very simplistic assessment of both human psychology and epistemology. You are assuming that in any culture if a sufficiently unusual event happens it must compel belief even at second hand. I don't see any grounds for saying this must be the case.

Don't see any grounds? Not very convincing? A hero that was cheered into the city of Jerusalem, then turned on for no apparent reason, while the Romans released a murderer/insurrectionalist in his place, then crucified him between two lowly thieves, then the massive earthquakes, renting of temple veil and inexplicable darkness?

How could any Jew look on that Holywood spectacular, not be overawed for the rest of his life and tell everyone that he knew? That day of events would have been firmly etched on his mind forever. Then not hear about the zombie invasion and his resurrection appearances in front of huge crowds that would have impressed David Copperfield?

The only reasonable explanation for all this was that it was all made up and didn't happen.
Why would his God self and his Holy Ghost self want to keep his incarnate human self from knowing that his human self was not just his human self but also at the same time his God self and Holy Ghost self? It seems pretty selfish to me.
Moonwood the Hare wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:08 pm
You are confusing two issues here. I am saying that in so far as Jesus is aware of his deity and his special relationship to the father, this awareness would not need to be couched in the language and conceptual framework of a later theology, not that he would have no awareness of this at all.
So he knew about it all along but kept it to himself? Maybe all the thousands of Jewish witnesses to the most amazing events in all history kept it to themselves too, but I doubt it. Very much.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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SteveEpperson
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Re: If Jewish Eyewitnesses Didn't Believe in Jesus...

Post by SteveEpperson » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:25 am

SEG wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:59 am
Jesus was supposed to be "King of the Jews". What went wrong? If the Jewish people believed in Yahweh, believed in the scriptures and in miracles, why didn’t they believe God raised Jesus from the dead?
While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.’ If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.” So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day. Matt. 28:11-15

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SteveEpperson
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Re: If Jewish Eyewitnesses Didn't Believe in Jesus...

Post by SteveEpperson » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:52 am

SEG wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:59 am
The Trinity is a central faith of Christians, yet Jesus never explained it in the the NT. In fact, it's never mentioned there at all.
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Genesis 3:22

[Jesus Said:]
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19

[Jesus Said:]
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. John 14:16-18

[Jesus Said:]
I and the Father are one. John 10:30

[Jesus Said:]
Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” John 10:36b-38

Humanguy
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Re: If Jewish Eyewitnesses Didn't Believe in Jesus...

Post by Humanguy » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:50 pm

SteveEpperson wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:52 am
SEG wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:59 am
The Trinity is a central faith of Christians, yet Jesus never explained it in the the NT. In fact, it's never mentioned there at all.
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Genesis 3:22

[Jesus Said:]
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19

[Jesus Said:]
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. John 14:16-18

[Jesus Said:]
I and the Father are one. John 10:30

[Jesus Said:]
Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” John 10:36b-38
Can someone please get this Bible-quoting yo yo out of here?

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SEG
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Re: If Jewish Eyewitnesses Didn't Believe in Jesus...

Post by SEG » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:59 pm

Humanguy wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:50 pm

Can someone please get this Bible-quoting yo yo out of here?
Steve's brain has been deep-fried by Christian dogma and so sadly cannot have any free thoughts. Christians here must be embarrassed by him.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

Humanguy
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Re: If Jewish Eyewitnesses Didn't Believe in Jesus...

Post by Humanguy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:20 pm

SEG wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:59 pm
Humanguy wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:50 pm

Can someone please get this Bible-quoting yo yo out of here?
Steve's brain has been deep-fried by Christian dogma and so sadly cannot have any free thoughts. Christians here must be embarrassed by him.
I would hope so. This guy doesn't want to know anyone here, he contributes nothing and won't respond directly to questions. Why, then, is he here?

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SEG
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Re: If Jewish Eyewitnesses Didn't Believe in Jesus...

Post by SEG » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:45 pm

Hey Steve, are you still here? We will give you one chance to repent and redeem yourself. If you ignore this, off you go to atheist hell.
Premise One: If a compassionate God exists, then he would do things just as a compassionate person would.
Premise Two: God doesn't do things as a compassionate person would.
Conclusion: Therefore, a compassionate God does not exist.

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