Why Some Christians Need to Lie

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Chapabel
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Chapabel » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:59 pm

SEG wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:37 pm
Chapabel wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:59 pm
Lets take one of the supposed contradictions you posted and see how there is no contradiction, just a snap conclusion based on sloppy study. How many stalls did Solomon have? He had 4,000. 2 Chronicles 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem. But here's where the lazy Bible student claims there is a contradiction by citing I Kings 4:26. Look at what I Kings 4:26 says: 1 Kings 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen. Solomon had 4,000 stalls for horses, but he had 40,000 horses in those stalls. Ten horses per stall.
That's a stretch! Ten horses per stall? Pfft! Show me the evidence for that!
I just did. Read what Gill said about the huge stalls.
They are all well known contradictions and all are valid. Yes, let's discuss one at a time. First of all, what about this:
According to Genesis, Noah was 500 years old when he begat Shem (5:32). Noah was 600 years old when the Flood waters were on the earth (7:6). Shem was 100 years old when he begat Arphaxad, two years after the Flood (11:10). This is a mistake. If Shem begat Arphaxad two years after the Flood, then he should have been 102 years old.
Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. The Bible does not say Noah was 500 years old when Shem was born. Look closely at the verse: Genesis 5:32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Noah's story begins when he is 500 years old, but this verse does not say this is when Shem was born. It simply says Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth.
...and why wasn't Methuselah on the ark?
Lazy, lazy, lazy. Well, let's investigate and see why Methuselah wasn't on the ark...Methuselah lived to be 969 years old (Gen.5:27). He was 187 when his son Lamech was born (Gen.5:25). Lamech was 182 when Noah was born (Gen.5:28) which would have made Methuselah 369. Noah was 600 when the flood came which would have made Methuselah 969. So answer is plain...Methuselah dies the same year the flood came. Simple math my friend. Next...

Humanguy
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Humanguy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:33 pm

Chapabel wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Methuselah lived to be 969 years old (Gen.5:27). He was 187 when his son Lamech was born (Gen.5:25). Lamech was 182 when Noah was born (Gen.5:28) which would have made Methuselah 369. Noah was 600 when the flood came which would have made Methuselah 969.
Why do you suppose people lived so long back then?

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Chapabel
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Chapabel » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:58 pm

Humanguy wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:33 pm
Chapabel wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Methuselah lived to be 969 years old (Gen.5:27). He was 187 when his son Lamech was born (Gen.5:25). Lamech was 182 when Noah was born (Gen.5:28) which would have made Methuselah 369. Noah was 600 when the flood came which would have made Methuselah 969.
Why do you suppose people lived so long back then?
I can’t say for certain. I heard one scientist suggest that before the flood there could have been an ice layer surrounding the earth that had a greenhouse effect based on Gen.1:6-7. He said it would have cause people to live longer and grow larger. That is plausible I guess.

captain howdy
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by captain howdy » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:46 am

Chapabel wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:58 pm
Humanguy wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:33 pm
Chapabel wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Methuselah lived to be 969 years old (Gen.5:27). He was 187 when his son Lamech was born (Gen.5:25). Lamech was 182 when Noah was born (Gen.5:28) which would have made Methuselah 369. Noah was 600 when the flood came which would have made Methuselah 969.
Why do you suppose people lived so long back then?
I can’t say for certain. I heard one scientist suggest that before the flood there could have been an ice layer surrounding the earth that had a greenhouse effect based on Gen.1:6-7. He said it would have cause people to live longer and grow larger. That is plausible I guess.
So...You dismiss the nearly unanimous consensus among biologists that evolution is true and reject the mountain of evidence gathered by them over the last century and a half as baloney because science is flawed. but you have no problem with the plainly ludicrous notion people lived 900 years *maybe because of greenhouse gases?* Because some scientist said"?? I mean, dude.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Chapabel » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:50 am

captain howdy wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:46 am

So...You dismiss the nearly unanimous consensus among biologists that evolution is true and reject the mountain of evidence gathered by them over the last century and a half as baloney because science is flawed. but you have no problem with the plainly ludicrous notion people lived 900 years *maybe because of greenhouse gases?* Because some scientist said"?? I mean, dude.
Yep, pretty much

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SEG
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by SEG » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:42 am

SEG wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:37 pm
That's a stretch! Ten horses per stall? Pfft! Show me the evidence for that!
I just did. Read what Gill said about the huge stalls.
A wild claim is not evidence. When, why and where did anyone place ten separate stalls inside another 4,000 larger stalls? This what should have been written without any mistakes if that ridiculous claim is true;

2 Chronicles 9:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, with ten separate stalls inside each one and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

1 Kings 4:26 New King James Version (NKJV)
26 Solomon had [a]forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
IOW, four thousand does NOT equal forty thousand! That's like saying that Noah had 3 sons in one text then in another text saying Noah had 5 sons including Yam and another son named Bith who were not allowed aboard the Ark. So it's obvious that both texts align as Noah actually had 5 sons.
Other stories did have these Extrabiblical sons of Noah sons of Noah, btw
SEG wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:37 pm
They are all well known contradictions and all are valid. Yes, let's discuss one at a time. First of all, what about this:
According to Genesis, Noah was 500 years old when he begat Shem (5:32). Noah was 600 years old when the Flood waters were on the earth (7:6). Shem was 100 years old when he begat Arphaxad, two years after the Flood (11:10). This is a mistake. If Shem begat Arphaxad two years after the Flood, then he should have been 102 years old.
Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. The Bible does not say Noah was 500 years old when Shem was born. Look closely at the verse: Genesis 5:32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Noah's story begins when he is 500 years old, but this verse does not say this is when Shem was born. It simply says Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth.
I think that it is pretty clear here that Noah was 500 years old for 3 of his 5 sons;
Genesis 5:32
New Living Translation
By the time Noah was 500 years old, he was the father of Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
...and why wasn't Methuselah on the ark?
Lazy, lazy, lazy. Well, let's investigate and see why Methuselah wasn't on the ark...Methuselah lived to be 969 years old (Gen.5:27). He was 187 when his son Lamech was born (Gen.5:25). Lamech was 182 when Noah was born (Gen.5:28) which would have made Methuselah 369. Noah was 600 when the flood came which would have made Methuselah 969. So answer is plain...Methuselah dies the same year the flood came. Simple math my friend. Next...
Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. The Masoretic states that Methuselah died in the year of the flood at the age of 969. The Septuagint (Alexandrinus) documents Methuselah as having died 6 years before the flood. The Septuagint (Vaticanus) says Methuselah died 14 years after the flood
Now, which among the above is the truth? Did this old dude tread water for 12 months?
Last edited by SEG on Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Chapabel » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:51 am

I’m going rafting with our youth group today. Since tomorrow is Sunday, I’ll respond in a couple of days to your post. But just to give you fair warning, your post is total junk. I’m looking forward to dismantling your assertions. Cheers

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SEG
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by SEG » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:58 pm

captain howdy wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:46 am

So...You dismiss the nearly unanimous consensus among biologists that evolution is true and reject the mountain of evidence gathered by them over the last century and a half as baloney because science is flawed. but you have no problem with the plainly ludicrous notion people lived 900 years *maybe because of greenhouse gases?* Because some scientist said"?? I mean, dude.
I'm going to guess the reason why Chappy was so vague is because his ridiculous claim was sourced from a Creationist named Henry Morris who projected "the canopy theory"·
The Canopy theory is a now largely discredited model originally developed as an explanation for the source of the flood water that covered the Earth during the Biblical flood.[1] Henry Morris once promoted the canopy theory as the most probable source of the global flood waters, citing a number of supporting factors in both The Genesis Flood (1961) and The Genesis Record (1976).

In The Genesis Record, Henry Morris states:

“ A worldwide rain lasting forty days would be quite impossible under present atmospheric conditions; so this phenomenon required an utterly different source of atmospheric waters than now obtains. This we have already seen to be the “waters above the firmament,” the vast thermal blanket of invisible water vapor that maintained the greenhouse effect in the antediluvian world. These waters somehow were to condense and fall on the earth.[2] ”
Still, the Bible obviously states in Genesis 7:11 (NKJV) that "on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." So then, the supposed "canopy" or "firmament" was not the only source for the flood water, but the "fountains of the great deep" was also a considerable source, possibly the more important.

Thus the theory according to which the supposed "canopy" was the only source for the flood waters was clearly wrong when confronted with Scripture, not to mention the fact that "a vapor canopy holding more than two meters (7 feet) of rain would cause the Earth’s surface to be intolerably hot, so a vapor canopy could not have been a significant source of the Flood waters" [3], hence "the fountains of the great deep".

Factors Supporting Canopy Theory

Continuous forty day rain.
Rainbows & clouds - not mentioned in the Bible before the flood
Fossil plants and animals in polar regions, indicating globally uniform temperatures before the flood.
Tremendous decline in human life expectancy following the flood.
Was I right, lol!?
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Chapabel
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by Chapabel » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:01 pm

SEG wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:42 am
A wild claim is not evidence. When, why and where did anyone place ten separate stalls inside another 4,000 larger stalls?
IOW, four thousand does NOT equal forty thousand!
No one said there were 10 separate stalls in larger stalls. There were 10 horses per stall. I don't understand why you have such a hard time with this.
That's like saying that Noah had 3 sons in one text then in another text saying Noah had 5 sons including Yam and another son named Bith who were not allowed aboard the Ark. So it's obvious that both texts align as Noah actually had 5 sons.
Other stories did have these Extrabiblical sons of Noah sons of Noah, btw
This is where your train has jumped the tracks and makes you look very foolish. Noah had three sons. Period. Your 'extrabiblical" sources are the Quran and an Irish myth. The Quran is total junk written by a murderous pedophile. I find it outlandish that you would present the Quran and an Irish myth as evidence, in your effort to reject the Bible. You are so desperate to discredit the Bible that you're willing to stand on the Quran and an Irish myth as your foundation of Biblical resistance. What an absolute joke, even for you.
Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. The Masoretic states that Methuselah died in the year of the flood at the age of 969. The Septuagint (Alexandrinus) documents Methuselah as having died 6 years before the flood. The Septuagint (Vaticanus) says Methuselah died 14 years after the flood
Now, which among the above is the truth? Did this old dude tread water for 12 months?
This is hilarious. You're trying to come across as if you know what you're talking about, when in reality your Biblical ignorance is glaring to anyone who knows anything about Biblical history. The Septuagint is a Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament. You have incorrectly divided the Septuagint into Alexandrian text and Vaticanus. The Codex Vaticanus is a a separate translation discovered in the library of the Vatican in the 19th century. The original first 20 pages of Genesis were lost and were replaced in the 15th century. The Alexandrian text is exclusively a New Testament text that does not refer to Noah at all. The Masoretic text is considered the most accurate of the Old Testament texts and is the source for the KJV of the Bible. I would love to see your source for this bogus post because you either bungled your presentation or you used some atheist website that failed in it's research.

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SEG
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Re: Why Some Christians Need to Lie

Post by SEG » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:58 am

SEG wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:42 am
A wild claim is not evidence. When, why and where did anyone place ten separate stalls inside another 4,000 larger stalls?
IOW, four thousand does NOT equal forty thousand!
Chapabel wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:01 pm
No one said there were 10 separate stalls in larger stalls. There were 10 horses per stall. I don't understand why you have such a hard time with this.
I don't understand as you aren't making any sense, and either does your mate John DILL 4,000 stalls equal 4,000 stalls, no matter if there are 10, 100 or 1,000 horses in each. Have a look again what you two dills wrote:
How many stalls did Solomon have? He had 4,000. 2 Chronicles 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem. But here's where the lazy Bible student claims there is a contradiction by citing I Kings 4:26. Look at what I Kings 4:26 says: 1 Kings 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen. Solomon had 4,000 stalls for horses, but he had 40,000 horses in those stalls. Ten horses per stall. John Gill further explains this in his commentary:
In 2Ch 9:25; it is only four thousand; and therefore some think that here is a mistake of the copier, of "arbaim", forty, for "arbah", four; which it is thought might be through divine permission, in such lesser matters, without any prejudice to the authority of the Scriptures in matters of faith and practice; but without supposing this, a reconciliation may be made, by observing, that here the writer, as Ben Gersom notes, gives the number of the horses that were in the stables, which were forty thousand, there the stables themselves, which were four thousand, ten horses in a stable; or here he numbers the stalls, which were forty thousand, and there the stables, which were four thousand, there being ten stalls in each; and the word there has the letter "yod" in it more than here, which is the numerical letter for "ten", and may point thereunto; or here the writer speaks of all the stalls for horses Solomon had throughout the kingdom, there of those only he had in Jerusalem. Benjamin of Tudela1 affirms, that these stalls, or stables, which Solomon built very strong of large stones, are still in being in Jerusalem, and that there is no building to be seen like it any where; but no other writer speaks of them; nor is it at all probable that they should remain:
SEG wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:42 am
That's like saying that Noah had 3 sons in one text then in another text saying Noah had 5 sons including Yam and another son named Bith who were not allowed aboard the Ark. So it's obvious that both texts align as Noah actually had 5 sons. Other stories did have these Extrabiblical sons of Noah sons of Noah, btw
Chapabel wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:01 pm
This is where your train has jumped the tracks and makes you look very foolish. Noah had three sons. Period. Your 'extrabiblical" sources are the Quran and an Irish myth. The Quran is total junk written by a murderous pedophile. I find it outlandish that you would present the Quran and an Irish myth as evidence, in your effort to reject the Bible. You are so desperate to discredit the Bible that you're willing to stand on the Quran and an Irish myth as your foundation of Biblical resistance. What an absolute joke, even for you.
What makes those stories any less believable than yours? It's not like we are talking about historical evidence, they are all myths.
Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. The Masoretic states that Methuselah died in the year of the flood at the age of 969. The Septuagint (Alexandrinus) documents Methuselah as having died 6 years before the flood. The Septuagint (Vaticanus) says Methuselah died 14 years after the flood
Now, which among the above is the truth? Did this old dude tread water for 12 months?
Chapabel wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:01 pm
This is hilarious. You're trying to come across as if you know what you're talking about, when in reality your Biblical ignorance is glaring to anyone who knows anything about Biblical history.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Hahahar! What is obvious here, is that YOU are the ignorant one, and you are supposed to be a pastor! The Codex Vaticanus, Codex Alexandrinus and Codex Sinaiticus are all Septuagint manuscripts. Your really should know this shit, Chappy. I have only been doing my Bible studies for 3 years and already I can run circles around you. See Wiki
The Codex Alexandrinus (London, British Library, MS Royal 1. D. V-VIII; Gregory-Aland no. A or 02, Soden δ 4) is a fifth-century manuscript of the Greek Bible,[n 1] containing the majority of the Septuagint and the New Testament.
and A Study of the Interpretation of Noah and Christian Literature
The Alexandrian text is exclusively a New Testament text that does not refer to Noah at all.
*Yawn* See above Wiki quote

Here is one of the variant Bible verses from Genesis 5:25
a. "Methuselah lived 187 years, and became the father of Lamech." (Genesis 5:25, MT)

b. "And Mathusala lived 167 years, and begot Lamech." (Genesis 5:25, Codex Alexandrinus)
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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