Is Christianity oppressed in the USA?

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Is Christianity oppressed in the USA?

Poll ended at Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:58 am

Not at all, free as a bird. Oppression is nonsense.
6
46%
Free to practice, but speech is restrained.
2
15%
Free to practice, but media tries to override message.
3
23%
Free to practice, but totally unwelcome in public.
2
15%
Oppressed by media and public, nearly banned.
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 13

Is Christianity oppressed in the USA?

Postby spongebob » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:58 am

Ok Christians, here's your chance to be heard. The conservative media thrives on harping about the oppression of Christianity. From the overt secluar messages in movies to the "War on Christmas", we hear it all the time. And yet I can't drive my car more than 2 miles without seeing a "Jesus fish" on someone's bumper. What's the story, is Christianity really oppressed or is this conservative hype and contrived anxiety?
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Postby mikedsjr » Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:24 am

I voted "Not at all". Christians are their own worst enemy who disobey God's word and follow after the ways of consumerism.
There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens
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Postby koin4life » Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:35 am

My vote falls closest to the public oppression. While I don't think most of the time does it because they hate Christianity, I think it stems from being afraid to be sued. I heard a story how a person in Michigan (I think) had an Easter bunny and eggs at her desk. Her manager came up to her and told her she had to take them down because they represent Christianity. Now, I doubt the manager actually had a problem with it, but was more afraid of being sued, thus he told her to take them down.

The point I am trying to make is, although Easter started out as a Christian holiday in this country, it has progressed, through commercialism, to a holiday for everyone. Therefore, to say the Easter Bunny is associated with Easter, is rather absurd in my book. If you want to ban the Easter Bunny, go ahead and do so, but don't do it because you think it is associated with Easter. I hope this demonstrates my point accurately.
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Postby Atheist37 » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:23 am

I voted that speech is restrained, but only where it violates the first provision of the first amendment -- the establishment clause. Yes I'm aware of the controversy in gory detail, but the fact of the matter is that Christians are sometimes restrained from placing religious displays on government property. This restraint is much less than it should be. Atheists must use American money with "In God We Trust" on every coin and bill. Atheists must say (or refrain from saying) "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance. So while I say that Christian speech is restrained to some degree, it is not nearly enough.

And before the Christians get all righteous about this, the establishment clause serves to protect the rights of the religious far more than it protects the rights of the non-believer. You inject religion into government at your own peril.
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Postby spongebob » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:32 am

Atheist37 wrote:I voted that speech is restrained, but only where it violates the first provision of the first amendment -- the establishment clause. Yes I'm aware of the controversy in gory detail, but the fact of the matter is that Christians are sometimes restrained from placing religious displays on government property. This restraint is much less than it should be. Atheists must use American money with "In God We Trust" on every coin and bill. Atheists must say (or refrain from saying) "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance. So while I say that Christian speech is restrained to some degree, it is not nearly enough.

And before the Christians get all righteous about this, the establishment clause serves to protect the rights of the religious far more than it protects the rights of the non-believer. You inject religion into government at your own peril.


You say it, brother! You guys know how I voted. Heck, I had to listen to a guy ramble on for 15 minutes about god and his importance in our lives in a BUSINESS MEETING this morning. I thought I was gonna :smt078

Why does Christianity have to be talked about all the time, especially when it's uninvited? Why not just believe it and live the way you want? What's wrong with that?
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Postby koin4life » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:39 am

I would say that saying under God in the Pledge, and the reference to mnoey, while both insignificant, should not be there. I accept the idea that certain things are consider religious, and therefore should not be displayed. Government buildings should not normally have crosses, Star of David, or any other religious symbol.

The exception I would make is that in certain cases like the town of Las Cruces, New Mexico, the town is named after it, so I would say it is more alright. Even then I am weary of it being displayed everywhere. Or, in Southern California, a town had a mission on its seal, which I am okay with, because looking at Southern California, it was the missions that established the first towns. Another exception I would make is displaying of the ten commandments on certain judicial buildings. I think justice in this country can be traced to it. Now, in some fashion the references to obeying God may need to be taken out, whether it be by not having any text, or by just having the things like "Thou shalt not bear false witness," be the only things that are legible.

Finally, I think a state employee should be able to display whatever they want within the confines of their work area (within limits). If someone wants to display a cross on their desk, they should be able to. But, if someone wanted to display a cross on their office door, I think that falls outside their right.

I was typing this post when the previous post was made, so I didn't see it. But, to respond to that, as long as it is a private business (as opposed to a government business like the post office), than it should be acceptable to mention God. Just like it should be acceptable to mention your disdain for God in that situation.
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Postby mikedsjr » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:06 am

Sure, It maybe should be okay to display a cross or some Christian item, but if it is not benefiting the cause of Christ because somehow it is being used to affect someone negatively, then I disagree. Some cross on a desk means little but possibly an idol to worship in front of everyone and say, "look how holy I am".

The only thing I have at my desk is my Bible. And it is there to read. In fact, I don't try to display it either. It is for me. Everyone at work knows I'm a Christian, because I just love talking about things going on at my church and different topics. It is what consumes me, but I for the most part stay out of political or religious topics in groups because I don't know where everyone is. But I will chat with some Christians in my office about events or such. It is what I enjoy. But I would say 90% of my office goes to church anyways. The most that happens is just fun harrassment with each other denominations. I tend to moderate those behind the scene to make sure they don't get from being fun loving joking to taking jabs at the different denoms. Our office is a real blast for the most part, and I have never heard anyone grumble about anything non-work related. We love having harmless fun, as long as work gets done.
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Postby spongebob » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:38 am

koin4life wrote:But, to respond to that, as long as it is a private business (as opposed to a government business like the post office), than it should be acceptable to mention God. Just like it should be acceptable to mention your disdain for God in that situation.


Most of your positions seem agreable enough, koin. Actually, you seem pretty unassuming for a Christian. I live in the deep South where Christians wear their religiosity on their sleeves, their necks, their cars...etc. And I certainly don't expect someone to restrain from commenting on their beliefs at work. But I was talking about a business meeting (in a large, publicly traded company) in which a particular employee had the floor and talked about how god's presence in this plant site was responsible for our financial success and working without injury. Now, I could easily argue with his facts on both of those issues, but the point is, he was demonstrating personal beliefs to a large group of people, in the assumption that everyone agrees with him. And there was simply no business reason for such a demonstration. Such a show of religiosity is fine in private settings, where everyone present is there by their own will (say a church or someone's home) but I was compelled to be at that meeting by my duties as an employee. It's just disgusting.

And as far as me speaking up and denouncing religion in front of that group, that's something that I talked about before. I am in the minority and my philosophies are held with contempt. Yet I have broken no laws. Why should I have to be in the spotlight? And if I do speak up, even if I do so respectfully, I risk the wrath and disconnection with my co-workers, which could affect my job. Christians do not take kindly to people who denounce their god.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Postby koin4life » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:47 am

I would think the person would be reprimanded for mentioning it at the meeting. Of course, if they own the company, they can say what they want. But, I would agree with you, there is a time and place for it, and that is not the time nor place (given the situation).

As for me, I don't have any religious items on my desk at work, nor little fishes on my car. I think those are silly, because they don't make you a Christian. I espcially don't like them on the cars because there are a lot of BAD drivers that are inconsiderate on the road, and having the fishy on their car only makes it worse.
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Postby spongebob » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:15 pm

koin4life wrote:I would think the person would be reprimanded for mentioning it at the meeting. Of course, if they own the company, they can say what they want. But, I would agree with you, there is a time and place for it, and that is not the time nor place (given the situation).


In this case the person was a manager, very high up at the plant, which makes it even worse because his actions are not just his actions, but also an example for others. Both managers and especially owners must take care with their actions. There's always the possibility of a quid pro quo when they address their empoyees and religion is not something businesses are allowed to discriminate.

As for me, I don't have any religious items on my desk at work, nor little fishes on my car. I think those are silly, because they don't make you a Christian. I espcially don't like them on the cars because there are a lot of BAD drivers that are inconsiderate on the road, and having the fishy on their car only makes it worse.


Good for you. And you are correct. Religious symbols don't make your religion valid. Ozzy Osbourne wears a crucifix most of the time, and there are articles which claim he is a Christian. But do you really want Ozzy representing Christianity?
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Postby koin4life » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:32 pm

It depends.....am I a bat or a person?
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Postby Norton » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:33 pm

Spongebob,

You're in the deep south?

There's a lot of southerners on the forum. Angry Stickman from SC and narsil's from the ATL if I'm not mistaken...

yeehaw.

:smt035

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Postby koin4life » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:39 pm

I'm originally from sunny southern california, but now I live near Chicago. Go Illinois Basketball!
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Postby spongebob » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:40 am

Norton wrote:Spongebob,

You're in the deep south?

There's a lot of southerners on the forum. Angry Stickman from SC and narsil's from the ATL if I'm not mistaken...

yeehaw.

:smt035

Norton


Yes, I am. Was that a question or a statement?
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Postby Norton » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:51 am

Both...as well as an invitation if you're ever in the Atlanta area to grab a cup of coffee sometime and shoot the breeze...

Or maybe we can all go to Texas and ride in Emery's sweet mustang...

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