Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Into statistics? Curious what everyone else thinks? Then start a poll here.

Do you support or oppose capital punishment, and what is your theism viewpoint?

I believe that God or gods exist, and I SUPPORT capital punishment in at least some circumstances.
2
9%
I am entirely uncertain about the existence of God (or gods), and I SUPPORT capital punishment in at least some circumstances.
3
14%
I do NOT believe that any gods exist, and I SUPPORT capital punishment in at least some circumstances.
4
18%
I believe that God or gods exists, and I OPPOSE capital punishment in all circumstances.
4
18%
I am entirely uncertain about the existence of God (or gods), and I OPPOSE capital punishment in all circumstances.
0
No votes
I do NOT believe that any gods exist, and I OPPOSE capital punishment in all circumstances.
9
41%
I believe that God or gods exists, and I have no opinion about capital punishment.
0
No votes
I am entirely uncertain about the existence of God (or gods), and I have no opinion about capital punishment.
0
No votes
I do NOT believe that any gods exist, and I have no opinion about capital punishment.
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 22

Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby Dr Mundo » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:40 pm

mitchellmckain wrote:
Dr Mundo wrote:Grow up man.

I think you mean, "get a lobotomy." That is the only way I am going to reach your level of kindergarten mentality.

Explain.
The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway]
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby Simplyme » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:04 pm

I think he was trying to be funny. Just laugh and walk away slowly....... :-)
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby mitchellmckain » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:14 pm

Dr Mundo wrote:
mitchellmckain wrote:
Dr Mundo wrote:Grow up man.

I think you mean, "get a lobotomy." That is the only way I am going to reach your level of kindergarten mentality.

Explain.


Ok. The explanation is this...

"Grow up man" is an invitation to trade insults. In which case, you might want to start with something a bit more clever.

Do you honestly think that it is a good idea to remove every form of entertainment from the prisons?
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby Dr Mundo » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:19 pm

mitchellmckain wrote:
Ok. The explanation is this...

"Grow up man" is an invitation to trade insults. In which case, you might want to start with something a bit more clever.

Do you honestly think that it is a good idea to remove every form of entertainment from the prisons?

No I don't. I think there is lots of room to improve but removing every form of entertainment is not something I would consider a good idea. I asked you to grow up and make your argument in an adult manner. Acting like a sarcastic, condescending idiot isn't something I consider a good idea either.
The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway]
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby sayak » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:35 pm

For those who completely oppose capital punishment, what about people who perpetrate mass genocide? I think some crimes against humanity should be deserving capital punishment.
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby Keep The Reason » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:19 pm

sayak wrote:For those who completely oppose capital punishment, what about people who perpetrate mass genocide? I think some crimes against humanity should be deserving capital punishment.


I'm just against it in all cases. I think such people deserve to live lives bereft of any hope of getting out or their lives being useful. Imagine a megalomaniac like Hitler forced to sit in a cell day after day, year in year out, with utterly nothing to do, basically a cot and a toilet, no one to talk to, no one to pontificate to... the only news he would get to hear is how the world turned away from his antisemitism by and large, and Jews prospered anyway.

It would drive him insane(r), and deservedly so. I'm not for killing people. I want them to experience their punishments, not escape from 'em.
To cut some folks off at the pass, I don't advocate for violence, oppression, genocide, war, hatred or intolerance. Instead, I advocate for education, organization, activism, and the democratic process. ~~ KtR
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby humanguy » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:52 pm

I'm against the concept of the state claiming the right to execute people. Any way you look at it, it's just too dangerous.
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby Dr Mundo » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:04 pm

Keep The Reason wrote:
sayak wrote:For those who completely oppose capital punishment, what about people who perpetrate mass genocide? I think some crimes against humanity should be deserving capital punishment.


I'm just against it in all cases. I think such people deserve to live lives bereft of any hope of getting out or their lives being useful. Imagine a megalomaniac like Hitler forced to sit in a cell day after day, year in year out, with utterly nothing to do, basically a cot and a toilet, no one to talk to, no one to pontificate to... the only news he would get to hear is how the world turned away from his antisemitism by and large, and Jews prospered anyway.

It would drive him insane(r), and deservedly so. I'm not for killing people. I want them to experience their punishments, not escape from 'em.

Sounds sick to me KTR. I do not want to torture a person even if I strongly disagree with the actions this person has done. Desiring to drive someone insane is disgusting in my opinion. This sounds like you are out for revenge rather than out for justice. I would want a person like this to be put away so that no other person may be negatively affected by them, but what separates a person who tortures bad guys from the actual bad guys?
The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway]
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby Keep The Reason » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:38 pm

Dr Mundo wrote:Sounds sick to me KTR. I do not want to torture a person even if I strongly disagree with the actions this person has done. Desiring to drive someone insane is disgusting in my opinion. This sounds like you are out for revenge rather than out for justice. I would want a person like this to be put away so that no other person may be negatively affected by them, but what separates a person who tortures bad guys from the actual bad guys?


I would say justice for someone like a Hitler would be impossible. Rehabilitation would seem impossible as well.

Revenge? Maybe. There's some of that; slaughtering millions of people certainly activates an emotional response. But there's also preemptive prevention-- a life of solitary in payment for genocide would seem a compellingly preventative measure for others inclined to let their megalomania unleash itself on millions of men women and children.

So what would you offer a guy like Hitler while in prison?
To cut some folks off at the pass, I don't advocate for violence, oppression, genocide, war, hatred or intolerance. Instead, I advocate for education, organization, activism, and the democratic process. ~~ KtR
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby Simplyme » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:47 pm

Dr Mundo wrote:
Keep The Reason wrote:
sayak wrote:For those who completely oppose capital punishment, what about people who perpetrate mass genocide? I think some crimes against humanity should be deserving capital punishment.


I'm just against it in all cases. I think such people deserve to live lives bereft of any hope of getting out or their lives being useful. Imagine a megalomaniac like Hitler forced to sit in a cell day after day, year in year out, with utterly nothing to do, basically a cot and a toilet, no one to talk to, no one to pontificate to... the only news he would get to hear is how the world turned away from his antisemitism by and large, and Jews prospered anyway.

It would drive him insane(r), and deservedly so. I'm not for killing people. I want them to experience their punishments, not escape from 'em.

Sounds sick to me KTR. I do not want to torture a person even if I strongly disagree with the actions this person has done. Desiring to drive someone insane is disgusting in my opinion. This sounds like you are out for revenge rather than out for justice. I would want a person like this to be put away so that no other person may be negatively affected by them, but what separates a person who tortures bad guys from the actual bad guys?


How is this any different then what KTR wants? I would assume that anyone that Hitler would associate with would be negatively affected. And I agree with KTR, even if not for the same reason, even if it is considered torture. Revenge or justice, both works for me. Some individuals are consider less then human to me. Just my opinion. And they are worst scenarios that I could think of then, " forced to sit in a cell day after day, year in year out, with utterly nothing to do, basically a cot and a toilet, no one to talk to, no one to pontificate to"
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby spongebob » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:41 pm

Keep The Reason wrote:I'm just against it in all cases. I think such people deserve to live lives bereft of any hope of getting out or their lives being useful. Imagine a megalomaniac like Hitler forced to sit in a cell day after day, year in year out, with utterly nothing to do, basically a cot and a toilet, no one to talk to, no one to pontificate to... the only news he would get to hear is how the world turned away from his antisemitism by and large, and Jews prospered anyway.

It would drive him insane(r), and deservedly so. I'm not for killing people. I want them to experience their punishments, not escape from 'em.


I share this sentiment even though I know it is morally and ethically indefensible, and rather sick. But something inside me would like to see truly evil people like Hitler or Saddam Hussein suffer instead of just die a quick death. I would never advocate this to others; it's just my innermost feelings. Whenever I hear about a brutal rapist or murderer getting the death penalty, it always occurs to me that he's getting off easy. A REAL punishment would be the survivors being allowed to inflict whatever pain they wished upon him for as long as they liked. But the downside of that is that it would destroy something in the survivors as well.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby Keep The Reason » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:32 pm

I'm not sure it's indefensible. You do what a Hitler does, why should you be embraced in the human community? Nothing is actually being done to him, other than keeping him locked away. He's being fed, clothed, a place to sleep, protection from the elements, exercise, hygiene, doctor when needed... are we obligated to give mass murderers books, TV, entertainment? Are we obligated to converse with them?

Why? What do they forfeit for being horrible monsters? Anything?
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby mitchellmckain » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:32 pm

spongebob wrote:I share this sentiment even though I know it is morally and ethically indefensible, and rather sick. But something inside me would like to see truly evil people like Hitler or Saddam Hussein suffer instead of just die a quick death. I would never advocate this to others; it's just my innermost feelings. Whenever I hear about a brutal rapist or murderer getting the death penalty, it always occurs to me that he's getting off easy. A REAL punishment would be the survivors being allowed to inflict whatever pain they wished upon him for as long as they liked. But the downside of that is that it would destroy something in the survivors as well.


Hmmm.... sounds like the motivation people had for a theology of hell for the purpose of torturing the "bad guys".
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby spongebob » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:32 pm

mitchellmckain wrote:Hmmm.... sounds like the motivation people had for a theology of hell for the purpose of torturing the "bad guys".


There could be some truth to that.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby Dr Mundo » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:24 am

Keep The Reason wrote:
Dr Mundo wrote:Sounds sick to me KTR. I do not want to torture a person even if I strongly disagree with the actions this person has done. Desiring to drive someone insane is disgusting in my opinion. This sounds like you are out for revenge rather than out for justice. I would want a person like this to be put away so that no other person may be negatively affected by them, but what separates a person who tortures bad guys from the actual bad guys?


I would say justice for someone like a Hitler would be impossible. Rehabilitation would seem impossible as well.

Revenge? Maybe. There's some of that; slaughtering millions of people certainly activates an emotional response. But there's also preemptive prevention-- a life of solitary in payment for genocide would seem a compellingly preventative measure for others inclined to let their megalomania unleash itself on millions of men women and children.

So what would you offer a guy like Hitler while in prison?
I don't know how to answer this. I don't know what would serve as justice. I can certainly see why someone would let their emotions cloud their judgement. I would love to think that if I had the power to decide what happened to people, I would opt to never purposefully inflict insanity, or torture because I don't think that is an appropriate response even when dealing with a murderer on such a large scale.

Look man I get it some people are unimaginably cruel, what we do with these people shapes who we are as a people though. Sometimes when I hear stories of cruelty to animals or innocent children I loose it in my head, and think things that I would not advocate or even attempt to do. I would try to stop them if I could for sure, but I just don't see how I could actually ever want to enact revenge no matter how much it angers me that there are people who will do terrible things to animals and defenseless people.

I think I agree with Mitch on this one. The desire for revenge is far to close linked to the concept of the Hell that some Christians believe in. I feel that it would be more consistent of me to just appose of any sort of revenge as an alternative to justice, if I argue against it when Christians do it.
The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway]
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