Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

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Do you support or oppose capital punishment, and what is your theism viewpoint?

I believe that God or gods exist, and I SUPPORT capital punishment in at least some circumstances.
2
9%
I am entirely uncertain about the existence of God (or gods), and I SUPPORT capital punishment in at least some circumstances.
3
14%
I do NOT believe that any gods exist, and I SUPPORT capital punishment in at least some circumstances.
4
18%
I believe that God or gods exists, and I OPPOSE capital punishment in all circumstances.
4
18%
I am entirely uncertain about the existence of God (or gods), and I OPPOSE capital punishment in all circumstances.
0
No votes
I do NOT believe that any gods exist, and I OPPOSE capital punishment in all circumstances.
9
41%
I believe that God or gods exists, and I have no opinion about capital punishment.
0
No votes
I am entirely uncertain about the existence of God (or gods), and I have no opinion about capital punishment.
0
No votes
I do NOT believe that any gods exist, and I have no opinion about capital punishment.
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 22

Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby Keep The Reason » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:31 am

Dr Mundo wrote: I don't know how to answer this. I don't know what would serve as justice. I can certainly see why someone would let their emotions cloud their judgement. I would love to think that if I had the power to decide what happened to people, I would opt to never purposefully inflict insanity, or torture because I don't think that is an appropriate response even when dealing with a murderer on such a large scale.

Look man I get it some people are unimaginably cruel, what we do with these people shapes who we are as a people though. Sometimes when I hear stories of cruelty to animals or innocent children I loose it in my head, and think things that I would not advocate or even attempt to do. I would try to stop them if I could for sure, but I just don't see how I could actually ever want to enact revenge no matter how much it angers me that there are people who will do terrible things to animals and defenseless people.

I think I agree with Mitch on this one. The desire for revenge is far to close linked to the concept of the Hell that some Christians believe in. I feel that it would be more consistent of me to just appose of any sort of revenge as an alternative to justice, if I argue against it when Christians do it.


I'm not advocating doing anything to him at all, except agreeing with his exiling himself from humanity. I don't see how anyone is obligated to do anything for such a person, except ensure his basic needs. How about exiling him on a small island by himself? But then he'd pretty much have to fend for himself.

By the way, people do years and years in solitary and do not have "insanity inflicted upon them". I'm sure it's unpleasant but it's not inflicting insanity on them. Hitler might be perfectly content to relive his years in office by himself. Who knows?
To cut some folks off at the pass, I don't advocate for violence, oppression, genocide, war, hatred or intolerance. Instead, I advocate for education, organization, activism, and the democratic process. ~~ KtR
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby spongebob » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:45 am

Dr Mundo wrote:I think I agree with Mitch on this one. The desire for revenge is far to close linked to the concept of the Hell that some Christians believe in. I feel that it would be more consistent of me to just appose of any sort of revenge as an alternative to justice, if I argue against it when Christians do it.


In theory, I would say the same thing. But for someone like Hitler, my deepest desires are far more dark. Read on, if you dare.

KTR wrote:By the way, people do years and years in solitary and do not have "insanity inflicted upon them".


I don't have any personal knowledge of this but from reports I've heard, solitary can be quite damaging to a person's psychological condition.

I'm sure it's unpleasant but it's not inflicting insanity on them. Hitler might be perfectly content to relive his years in office by himself. Who knows?


See, this is where I am a bit different. If he was content with it, then I wouldn't do it. I think Hitler should have been kept alive as long as possible and should have been routinely inflicted with pain, suffering, indignity, humiliation. Nothing is too harsh for him.

This reminds me of a short story by Piers Anthony that I read years ago. Don't even remember the title anymore. It was about this planetary traveler who traveled to a planet where pain and torture was expected to show your devotion to someone. Since this guy was an emissary of Earth and desperately wanted good relations with them, he willingly agreed to their harshest treatment. Over a course of years, they slowly and meticulously dismembered him. They started with small things, like his finger nails, then the skin of his finger tips, then the meat and finally bone. They allowed him time to heal before the next treatment in order to ensure his survival. At the end of the story, his family came to visit him and there was nothing left but a skinless, eyeless head encased in a machine that provided it with life-giving fluids and oxygen. Truly horrific. That's the kind of punishment Hitler should have gotten.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby Simplyme » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:04 am

I think I agree with Mitch on this one. The desire for revenge is far to close linked to the concept of the Hell that some Christians believe in. I feel that it would be more consistent of me to just appose of any sort of revenge as an alternative to justice, if I argue against it when Christians do it.


The big difference with my revenge scenario and the Christians hell scenario, is that theirs is eternal. That right there is a big difference. So for any Christian to consider it outrageous for my preferred form of revenge for guys like Hitler versus theirs, is sort of funny considering there gods form of punishment is much worst and eternal.


P.S. Yes I know there are Christians out there who do not believe in hell, or do not think it is eternal, or only sees it as a separation from god, or many of the other sort of beliefs different types of Christians hold. The above applies to only "those Christians" that believe hell is a place of eternal torture.
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby Simplyme » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:07 am

spongebob wrote:
Dr Mundo wrote:I think I agree with Mitch on this one. The desire for revenge is far to close linked to the concept of the Hell that some Christians believe in. I feel that it would be more consistent of me to just appose of any sort of revenge as an alternative to justice, if I argue against it when Christians do it.


In theory, I would say the same thing. But for someone like Hitler, my deepest desires are far more dark. Read on, if you dare.

KTR wrote:By the way, people do years and years in solitary and do not have "insanity inflicted upon them".


I don't have any personal knowledge of this but from reports I've heard, solitary can be quite damaging to a person's psychological condition.

I'm sure it's unpleasant but it's not inflicting insanity on them. Hitler might be perfectly content to relive his years in office by himself. Who knows?


See, this is where I am a bit different. If he was content with it, then I wouldn't do it. I think Hitler should have been kept alive as long as possible and should have been routinely inflicted with pain, suffering, indignity, humiliation. Nothing is too harsh for him.

This reminds me of a short story by Piers Anthony that I read years ago. Don't even remember the title anymore. It was about this planetary traveler who traveled to a planet where pain and torture was expected to show your devotion to someone. Since this guy was an emissary of Earth and desperately wanted good relations with them, he willingly agreed to their harshest treatment. Over a course of years, they slowly and meticulously dismembered him. They started with small things, like his finger nails, then the skin of his finger tips, then the meat and finally bone. They allowed him time to heal before the next treatment in order to ensure his survival. At the end of the story, his family came to visit him and there was nothing left but a skinless, eyeless head encased in a machine that provided it with life-giving fluids and oxygen. Truly horrific. That's the kind of punishment Hitler should have gotten.


And yet that all still fall short of many versions of hell that a god would condemn him to.
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby Dr Mundo » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:27 am

Farm raised pigs go insane from lack of mental stimulation. They are social animals and being locked up in small crates their whole lives leads to serious mental damage. Study after study shows the same for humans. I'm not for doing it to any intelligent animal. You guys are all right though, it is not easy to be compassionate to monsters, but just be careful of becoming the monster yourself by how you advocate treating others
The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway]
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Re: Theism, Atheism, and Capital Punishment

Postby spongebob » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:45 am

Dr Mundo wrote:Farm raised pigs go insane from lack of mental stimulation. They are social animals and being locked up in small crates their whole lives leads to serious mental damage. Study after study shows the same for humans. I'm not for doing it to any intelligent animal. You guys are all right though, it is not easy to be compassionate to monsters, but just be careful of becoming the monster yourself by how you advocate treating others


Just so I'm clear; I am not advocating any kind of punishment. But I wouldn't shed a tear if monsters were punished brutally.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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