Prostitution

Into statistics? Curious what everyone else thinks? Then start a poll here.

Should prostitution be legalized?

Yes, prostitution should be legalized.
12
36%
Prostitution should be legalized, but taxed heavily and highly regulated.
9
27%
Prostitution should be decriminalized, not legalized.
6
18%
Prostitution should be neither decriminalized nor legalized.
2
6%
I support legalization, but it should be left up to the states.
1
3%
I don't support legalization, but it should be left up to the states.
2
6%
Undecided.
1
3%
 
Total votes : 33

Re: Prostitution

Postby spongebob » Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:29 pm

Rian wrote:Dr M and Sponge - What I'm trying to point out is that sex is something beautiful, and something shared between people that love each other, and that's why rape is a crime, among other things - it takes something very valuable away from someone. That's what I was trying to point out with bringing up rape. And that's how prostitution is different from athletics - it involves sex, which is tied to love very strongly. I don't think prostitutes are looked down on because sex is something shameful. Quite the opposite, in fact. I think prostitution is looked down on because sex is beautiful, and many people feel that it's wrong to sell something beautiful and personal. Sports doesn't involve that personal aspect, and that's a big difference.


Still don't know what this has to do with the topic. And I don't buy the reason you proposed for prostitutes being disrespected. It seems like an intrinsically dirty profession, not to mention that its such a submissive thing to do.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Rian » Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:43 pm

You may not buy my reason, but a lot of people do. Different people look at things differently.

And what it has to do with the topic - it's a comment on someone's analogy, showing how the analogy doesn't fit in a pretty significant way.

Why do you call it submissive, btw? Is it any more submissive than any other paid job, IYO?
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Re: Prostitution

Postby spongebob » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:59 pm

Rian wrote:Why do you call it submissive, btw? Is it any more submissive than any other paid job, IYO?


Yes, it does to me, because it's submitting to something far more personal and intimate.

And what it has to do with the topic - it's a comment on someone's analogy, showing how the analogy doesn't fit in a pretty significant way.

As far as comparing prostitution to being an athlete - yes, there are some similarities, but do you know of any young women who avoid walking down alleys at night because they're fearful of coming across gangs of men that will force them to play football?


If the analogy that you are referring to is prostitution and professional athletes, then I still don't see what point you are trying to make. Just because there are people who rape women doesn't change the similarities of the two professions. Both of them involve people selling their bodies for the enjoyment of others. Rape has nothing to do with it so I don't see why you brought it up. Are you saying that because men rape women then that somehow makes prostitution different???? Men don't just rape prostitutes; they rape women of all types of professions. Are you saying it's more of a job hazard???

Football players bash each others head in for money. Sometimes people shoot football players.

Boxers beat each other senseless. Sometimes they are victims of brutal crimes as well.

MMA artists kick the shit out of one another. Well, no one is stupid enough to mess with them. 8)

Drug dealers deal drugs and they certainly get whacked at a greater rate than average.

The point being, crime is crime and has little to do with one's chosen profession unless you are trying to make the point that one's profession can put you in a greater risk of a certain crime. And I would agree that prostitutes are at a greater risk of abuse. But, you have to understand that proponents of legalization are proposing a system in which there would actually be more protection for prostitutes in a number of areas.
Last edited by spongebob on Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: updated content.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Dr Mundo » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:07 pm

Rian wrote:Dr M and Sponge - What I'm trying to point out is that sex is something beautiful, and something shared between people that love each other

That is a value judgment, and it is objectively false.

Sex doesn't have to be shared between people who love each other. Sex can be had by an arranged married couple on their wedding night which could very well be the first time they met being impossible for them to love each other. It could be between a couple who is not sure they love each other yet chose to get sexually intimate with each other. Or it could be any number of things between people who do not love each other.

That you want it to be beautiful and with a person who loves you and whom you love is fine. I share your sentiment regarding sex. What I oppose and what makes me angry is you trying to shove your judgments on what you think sex should be for others. Even though I agree with you, when it relates to ourselves, I'm frustrated with you for trying to force others to live up to our standard of sex, and I really am mad. We should stay the hell out of other peoples personal decisions I am even more mad at people who oppose same sex marriage but that is a whole different topic to be sure.


, and that's why rape is a crime, among other things - it takes something very valuable away from someone. That's what I was trying to point out with bringing up rape.
I still see this as being very irrelevant. Everyone is against rape here. We all agree on how bad it is. I will say no more regarding rape, it has nothing to do with this conversation.


And that's how prostitution is different from athletics - it involves sex, which is tied to love very strongly.

For you it is. This is fine, keep that to your self. If anyone is trying to force you to have sex with someone you don't love I will be totally against that. If you try to force others to only have sex with people they love I will be totally against that.

Also soccer uses your feet to move a ball and basketball your hands that means they are different. No one is saying sex is exactly like football. They are different but the thing being compared is not the actions themselves, but the concept of using your body to provide a service for others. Sex isn't the same as football, and soccer isn't the same as basketball, your reluctance to understand the comparison befuddles me.

I don't think prostitutes are looked down on because sex is something shameful. Quite the opposite, in fact. I think prostitution is looked down on because sex is beautiful, and many people feel that it's wrong to sell something beautiful and personal. Sports doesn't involve that personal aspect, and that's a big difference.

Anyone who looks down on prostitution I would consider foolish, not as an overall assessment of their character but in terms of this belief and this belief alone.
The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway]
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Re: Prostitution

Postby mitchellmckain » Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:59 am

Anyone who looks down on those who look down on prostitution I would consider foolish, not as an overall assessment of their character but in terms of this belief and this belief alone.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby spongebob » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:44 am

Dr Mundo wrote:Anyone who looks down on prostitution I would consider foolish, not as an overall assessment of their character but in terms of this belief and this belief alone.


Well, I suppose you would consider me foolish then because I don't consider prostitution to be a particularly honorable trade. But that doesn't mean prostitution stands alone in that regard; there are other trades that I find no more honorable and some even less. The one positive thing I'd say about prostitution is that the practitioners are giving their customers what they want and generally not trying to scam them.

Of course I don't consider the clients of prostitutes to be any more honorable.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Re: Prostitution

Postby Simplyme » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:08 am

Dr M and Sponge - What I'm trying to point out is that sex is something beautiful, and something shared between people that love each other


I disagree. I've had sex where there was no love involved. Just simple pleasure. And it was a lots of fun. Your confusing sex with love...........
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby darkumbra » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:47 am

Anti-prostitution, anti-gay marriage proponents mostly use the same logic..

"""What you are doing doesn't negatively affect me directly in any way, but *I* don't think you should do it, so I will create laws to make what you're doing illegal. Mainly because *I* am right! and you are wrong... it says so in this book."""

I have no problem with them thinking I shouldn't do 'X' (or in this case 'XXX'), but I have a huge problem when they ACT, with the force of law behind them, to stop me from doing 'X'

Once upon a time? (Not too long ago) These individuals enacted laws that made gay sex, in the privacy of your own home illegal... Punishable by castration either via physical or chemical means, incarceration, exile, etc etc. luckily for the world these self righteous individuals lost the power to do this in civilized countries... It still happens elsewhere.

Prostitution was, still is in some places, punishible by death by stoning. Luckily for us these self righteous individuals lost etc etc

I like where the trend is going
The "god experience"? I have no idea what you are talking about. This sounds like COMPLETE BULLSHIT that you are just making up. How do you define "god experience" in objective scientific terms?-Mitch - a Christian beyond compare.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Dr Mundo » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:07 am

spongebob wrote:
Dr Mundo wrote:Anyone who looks down on prostitution I would consider foolish, not as an overall assessment of their character but in terms of this belief and this belief alone.


Well, I suppose you would consider me foolish then because I don't consider prostitution to be a particularly honorable trade. But that doesn't mean prostitution stands alone in that regard; there are other trades that I find no more honorable and some even less. The one positive thing I'd say about prostitution is that the practitioners are giving their customers what they want and generally not trying to scam them.

Of course I don't consider the clients of prostitutes to be any more honorable.
It is one thing to think of prostitution as less than honorable, and (to me) entirely an other to look down on those who practice either end of it. You don't know what it is like for other people.

It depends on what you mean by "less than honorable". Depending on what you mean by it you could say that I find it "less than honorable" for me personally to engage in either end of prostitution. I prefer to have sex with someone I know and love just because it is more intimate for me. Others are different. My cousin is in the sub division in the Navy and he goes underway 8 months at a time and sometimes even longer. He is underwater, and away from home for very long periods of time. When he makes port he likes to visit strip clubs and prostitutes. He is content to do that and he treats them with respect because he is employing them to provide a service for him that he would like and I see nothing wrong with that for him, so long as he is happy and he treats others with respect. It is very hard for people like him to have a girlfriend and not be able to be intimate with them for 6+ months out of the year. If it where me I would probably be satisfied with masterbating and waiting to see my girlfriend because this is my own preference. I do not want to participate in prostitution because it does not feel like it is for me. Is this what you mean by "less than honorable" or do you mean you find it sick or perverted for others or just for yourself?

As you can tell it really does bother me that people try to push their values on everyone else. looking down on people who practice prostitution because you think they shouldn't makes me want to say mind your own damn business. If you say it as a personal thing for you, than I am right there with you. I don't want to engage in it myself either.
The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway]
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Dr Mundo » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:11 am

spongebob wrote:
Dr Mundo wrote:Anyone who looks down on prostitution I would consider foolish, not as an overall assessment of their character but in terms of this belief and this belief alone.


Well, I suppose you would consider me foolish then because I don't consider prostitution to be a particularly honorable trade. But that doesn't mean prostitution stands alone in that regard; there are other trades that I find no more honorable and some even less. The one positive thing I'd say about prostitution is that the practitioners are giving their customers what they want and generally not trying to scam them.

Of course I don't consider the clients of prostitutes to be any more honorable.


What about a 50-70 year old person who lost their wife/husband some time ago, and they still have sexual desires but have had very few opportunities to find a partner? Are there any circumstances where you wouldn't find it "less than honorable"?
The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway]
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Keep The Reason » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:26 am

darkumbra wrote:Anti-prostitution, anti-gay marriage proponents mostly use the same logic..

"""What you are doing doesn't negatively affect me directly in any way, but *I* don't think you should do it, so I will create laws to make what you're doing illegal. Mainly because *I* am right! and you are wrong... it says so in this book."""


You left this part out:

"And if you enact laws stopping me from being allowed to oppress the people I find icky, then you're robbing me of my rights and are doing exactly what the Nazis (who were gay by the way) did to the Jews (who are condemned to Hell for eternity for killing and rejecting Jesus, by the way), you bullies!"
To cut some folks off at the pass, I don't advocate for violence, oppression, genocide, war, hatred or intolerance. Instead, I advocate for education, organization, activism, and the democratic process. ~~ KtR
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Re: Prostitution

Postby darkumbra » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:32 am

Keep The Reason wrote:
darkumbra wrote:Anti-prostitution, anti-gay marriage proponents mostly use the same logic..

"""What you are doing doesn't negatively affect me directly in any way, but *I* don't think you should do it, so I will create laws to make what you're doing illegal. Mainly because *I* am right! and you are wrong... it says so in this book."""


You left this part out:

"And if you enact laws stopping me from being allowed to oppress the people I find icky, then you're robbing me of my rights and are doing exactly what the Nazis (who were gay by the way) did to the Jews (who are condemned to Hell for eternity for killing and rejecting Jesus, by the way), you bullies!"


Well there is that.

It's just soooo common a response that I thought it unnecessary to mention?

/evil grin
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Keep The Reason » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:36 am

mitchellmckain wrote:Anyone who looks down on those who look down on prostitution I would consider foolish


I look down on prostitutes but generally i's because I'm doing QA analysis on their work.

<Rim job...

er, Rim shot)
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Re: Prostitution

Postby spongebob » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:05 pm

Dr Mundo wrote:What about a 50-70 year old person who lost their wife/husband some time ago, and they still have sexual desires but have had very few opportunities to find a partner? Are there any circumstances where you wouldn't find it "less than honorable"?


I'm not going to judge anyone for doing it; it's their business. But I can't really see a circumstance where it looks any better to me. Bottom line is that it just seems like a very coarse thing to do either way.

From what I've heard and seen, I doubt many people have difficulty getting it the typical way. I've seen some pretty unattractive people out there having little difficulty. In fact I wish some of them would stop talking about it on Facebook. My guess is that it has more to do with personality than looks anyway.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Dr Mundo » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:05 pm

spongebob wrote:
Dr Mundo wrote:What about a 50-70 year old person who lost their wife/husband some time ago, and they still have sexual desires but have had very few opportunities to find a partner? Are there any circumstances where you wouldn't find it "less than honorable"?


I'm not going to judge anyone for doing it; it's their business. But I can't really see a circumstance where it looks any better to me. Bottom line is that it just seems like a very coarse thing to do either way.

From what I've heard and seen, I doubt many people have difficulty getting it the typical way. I've seen some pretty unattractive people out there having little difficulty. In fact I wish some of them would stop talking about it on Facebook. My guess is that it has more to do with personality than looks anyway.

At the end of the day what you or i personally think regarding if we are going to look down on prostitution isn't the issue. It's making sure that the people who do want to participate can do so in a safe, and secure manner. I think we agree on everything but looking down on others for their involvement in the business.
The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway]
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