Prostitution

Into statistics? Curious what everyone else thinks? Then start a poll here.

Should prostitution be legalized?

Yes, prostitution should be legalized.
12
36%
Prostitution should be legalized, but taxed heavily and highly regulated.
9
27%
Prostitution should be decriminalized, not legalized.
6
18%
Prostitution should be neither decriminalized nor legalized.
2
6%
I support legalization, but it should be left up to the states.
1
3%
I don't support legalization, but it should be left up to the states.
2
6%
Undecided.
1
3%
 
Total votes : 33

Re: Prostitution

Postby Dr Mundo » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:01 pm

Keep The Reason wrote:
Dr Mundo wrote:Do not give KTR all of your money. He is a lefty, atheist, pro gun regulation, pro choice, pro prostitution scoundrel. He will probably just spend all of your money at whole foods, and pro gay marriage fundraisers.


Nice going, Perfesser.

See those dead presidents flying out the window? That's your kick-back takin' a powder.

Dang it.
The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway]
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Kub » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:16 pm

Keep The Reason wrote:
Kub wrote:Money ...one of the biggest rape artist of all time. Forces a lot of people to do things they don't want to.


I'll PM you my address so you may divest yourself of all of it. I will happily take on all your temptations.

For free.

You would be extremely disappointed. That's why I'm taking online classes so I can go back to work. I'm fine with not having much money.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby darkumbra » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:27 pm

@dr Mundo

They don't stay out of the lives of others BECAUSE they know what is best for us, because they've read a particular book. THAT gives them the 'right', from their perspective, to interfere. Free will? Only if you agree with them.
The "god experience"? I have no idea what you are talking about. This sounds like COMPLETE BULLSHIT that you are just making up. How do you define "god experience" in objective scientific terms?-Mitch - a Christian beyond compare.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Rian » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:27 pm

Dr Mundo wrote:
Rian wrote:As far as comparing prostitution to being an athlete - yes, there are some similarities, but do you know of any young women who avoid walking down alleys at night because they're fearful of coming across gangs of men that will force them to play football?

Like almost everyone else I completely fail to see the point in this comment Rian.
Some people got it right off, but I'll elaborate.

Not one person on here is advocating for rape.
I agree.

The comparison made between an athletes and pron actors is that they both train their bodies and minds to go into physical activity to pay their bills.
I agreed that there are some similarities. What I was pointing out was how it was significantly different.

As far as what rape has to do with prostitution, well, I'll spell it out - they both involve sex. And yes, of course there are differences, but they both involve sex. One is sex for money, and one is sex forced on someone against their will, but they both involve sex, and to say that isn't so is just silly (some people try to claim that rape isn't about sex).

So the point is that although there are some similarities, the differences are very significant. The two are SO different that there is actually a crime specifically for forcing sex on someone, but there isn't one for forcing people to play a game. Women live in fear of rape, while they don't live in fear of someone forcing them to play an athletic game. I think that's a very significant difference, and I think although there are some similarities between prostitutes and athletes, the differences are so much more significant that it's just not accurate to portray them as similar things.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby spongebob » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:33 am

Rian wrote:As far as what rape has to do with prostitution, well, I'll spell it out - they both involve sex. And yes, of course there are differences, but they both involve sex. One is sex for money, and one is sex forced on someone against their will, but they both involve sex, and to say that isn't so is just silly (some people try to claim that rape isn't about sex).

So the point is that although there are some similarities, the differences are very significant. The two are SO different that there is actually a crime specifically for forcing sex on someone, but there isn't one for forcing people to play a game. Women live in fear of rape, while they don't live in fear of someone forcing them to play an athletic game. I think that's a very significant difference, and I think although there are some similarities between prostitutes and athletes, the differences are so much more significant that it's just not accurate to portray them as similar things.


Rian, I doubt anyone on this forum is unaware of any of this. We are all adults here. We all know the difference between rape and prostitution. Both prostitution and football are professions, both involving the physical abuse of their bodies. It's a pretty good analogy. Even better are sports like boxing or MMA. Beyond that, your analogy is not helping because you are not talking about a consensual contract. You are talking about a crime. And a sexual crime is particularly devastating, but so would being beaten senseless in an alley.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Keep The Reason » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:21 am

spongebob wrote:, I doubt anyone on this forum is unaware of any of this. We are all adults here. We all know the difference between rape and prostitution. Both prostitution and football are professions, both involving the physical abuse of their bodies. It's a pretty good analogy. Even better are sports like boxing or MMA. Beyond that, your analogy is not helping because you are not talking about a consensual contract. You are talking about a crime. And a sexual crime is particularly devastating, but so would being beaten senseless in an alley.


I generally agree with your summation but I want to point out that boxing or football is physical impact to the level of abuse, but sex, even lots of it, isn't inherently physical abuse. We just thnk of someone as having a lot of sex, like a prostitute, as allowing physical abuse because we've been inculcated to think of sex as "sinful". Therefore, doing sex a lot is like doing drugs a lot.

But think about it. What is physically abusive about fucking? I mean, sure you can do it violently and be cruel and so on, and it can become abusive, but so can ingesting water. But just fucking? Even if you fuck 25 times a day? It's just not abusve to fuck many times. We just think it is because of a cultural bias.

My analogy is weak because football and boxing are VASTLY more physically abusive to one's body than prostituion is, but because of that bias, we pay boxers and footballers millions, and just plain ballers we imprison.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby spongebob » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:25 am

If you consider all the crazy things that porn actors have to do to perform, I would classify much of that as abuse to their own bodies. Men have to get injections to stay hard and I presume they take a lot of viagra nowdays. Women have to do all the anal cleansing and bleaching. And just the physical exertion itself is pretty demanding. Plus they are constantly putting themselves at risk of STD's because I'm sure some people slip through their screening procedures. It's not the same as exposing themselves to concussions but there are some pretty extreme physical demands and I imagine that prostitutes experience similar demands on their bodies. Sex is not that demanding in and of itself, but done as a "service", I imagine that it can be very different.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Dr Mundo » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:38 am

Rian wrote:
Dr Mundo wrote:
Rian wrote:As far as comparing prostitution to being an athlete - yes, there are some similarities, but do you know of any young women who avoid walking down alleys at night because they're fearful of coming across gangs of men that will force them to play football?

Like almost everyone else I completely fail to see the point in this comment Rian.
Some people got it right off, but I'll elaborate.

Not one person on here is advocating for rape.
I agree.

The comparison made between an athletes and pron actors is that they both train their bodies and minds to go into physical activity to pay their bills.
I agreed that there are some similarities. What I was pointing out was how it was significantly different.

As far as what rape has to do with prostitution, well, I'll spell it out - they both involve sex. And yes, of course there are differences, but they both involve sex. One is sex for money, and one is sex forced on someone against their will, but they both involve sex, and to say that isn't so is just silly (some people try to claim that rape isn't about sex).

So the point is that although there are some similarities, the differences are very significant. The two are SO different that there is actually a crime specifically for forcing sex on someone, but there isn't one for forcing people to play a game. Women live in fear of rape, while they don't live in fear of someone forcing them to play an athletic game. I think that's a very significant difference, and I think although there are some similarities between prostitutes and athletes, the differences are so much more significant that it's just not accurate to portray them as similar things.

I still don't understand.

Can you see that I am not advocating for Rape and that I obviously understand that both rape and prostitution involve some sort of sexual contact? So does consensual sex in a marriage. Honestly though who cares. We are not talking about RAPE and we are not talking about married people having sex. Can we talk about prostitution,within the context of this conversation it is the only thing I want to talk about.

It would clearly be better if we regulated the industry providing a safe and secure environment for everyone involved.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Keep The Reason » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:42 am

spongebob wrote:If you consider all the crazy things that porn actors have to do to perform, I would classify much of that as abuse to their own bodies. Men have to get injections to stay hard and I presume they take a lot of viagra nowdays. Women have to do all the anal cleansing and bleaching. And just the physical exertion itself is pretty demanding. Plus they are constantly putting themselves at risk of STD's because I'm sure some people slip through their screening procedures. It's not the same as exposing themselves to concussions but there are some pretty extreme physical demands and I imagine that prostitutes experience similar demands on their bodies. Sex is not that demanding in and of itself, but done as a "service", I imagine that it can be very different.


Well that's porn you're talking about, not prostitution. Some mainstream actors also put themselves through hell, but I'd say on average porn stars probably do work vigorously. I'm not sure how troubling the injections are for the men; it's not endemic.

Prostitutes generally insist on protection because of the STDs, and professional legal ones it's a must. Of course, since it's illegal in most places now, one could argue the STD issue is a problem, but that's more because it's illegal once again -- if it were legalized, the protection from STD issue would have a much higher and more strident standard.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Kub » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:43 am

I generally agree with your summation but I want to point out that boxing or football is physical impact to the level of abuse, but sex, even lots of it, isn't inherently physical abuse. We just thnk of someone as having a lot of sex, like a prostitute, as allowing physical abuse because we've been inculcated to think of sex as "sinful". Therefore, doing sex a lot is like doing drugs a lot.

But think about it. What is physically abusive about fucking? I mean, sure you can do it violently and be cruel and so on, and it can become abusive, but so can ingesting water. But just fucking? Even if you fuck 25 times a day? It's just not abusve to fuck many times. We just think it is because of a cultural bias.

My analogy is weak because football and boxing are VASTLY more physically abusive to one's body than prostituion is, but because of that bias, we pay boxers and footballers millions, and just plain ballers we imprison.[/quote]

If I was having sex 25 times a day I would be pretty sore...lol :wink: But what about having sex 25 times a day with 25 different partners you're not attracted to or you dont connect with and even maybe grossed out by? Not all prostitutes are happy...a lot of them aren't and money forces them to do it.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Dr Mundo » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:10 am

Kub wrote:I generally agree with your summation but I want to point out that boxing or football is physical impact to the level of abuse, but sex, even lots of it, isn't inherently physical abuse. We just thnk of someone as having a lot of sex, like a prostitute, as allowing physical abuse because we've been inculcated to think of sex as "sinful". Therefore, doing sex a lot is like doing drugs a lot.

But think about it. What is physically abusive about fucking? I mean, sure you can do it violently and be cruel and so on, and it can become abusive, but so can ingesting water. But just fucking? Even if you fuck 25 times a day? It's just not abusve to fuck many times. We just think it is because of a cultural bias.

My analogy is weak because football and boxing are VASTLY more physically abusive to one's body than prostituion is, but because of that bias, we pay boxers and footballers millions, and just plain ballers we imprison.


If I was having sex 25 times a day I would be pretty sore...lol :wink: But what about having sex 25 times a day with 25 different partners you're not attracted to or you dont connect with and even maybe grossed out by? Not all prostitutes are happy...a lot of them aren't and money forces them to do it.
(quote thing will not work on my phone)[/quote]
No one said it was for every body. I wouldn't do it, because I don't think that would make me happy. If someone was happy with it and they made good money doing it, what is the problem?

Every time you guys try to bring up problems with legalizing prostitution, it is either not directly related to prostitution (like rape), or addressed by factors completely unrelated to the legalization of prostitution (like desperation for money). If you want to talk about poverty and that it makes people do things they would not otherwise do, then I agree with you. The topic here is should prostitution be legalized, not is rape bad, or is desperation for money unfortunate.

Not only are there no good reasons to outlaw prostitution, there are plenty of damn good reasons to regulate so it is safe, profitable, and legal. It might be a lack of imagination on my part but I can see absolutely no reason why people would not want to support those three things for this market.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Keep The Reason » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:25 pm

If I was having sex 25 times a day I would be pretty sore...lol :wink: But what about having sex 25 times a day with 25 different partners you're not attracted to or you dont connect with and even maybe grossed out by? Not all prostitutes are happy...a lot of them aren't and money forces them to do it.
(quote thing will not work on my phone)


Of course not all pro's are happy. All <insert every type of job here> have unhappy people.

Here's where I see is the problem:

1. Demonize sex by letting an authoritative ideological institution dictate sexuality for us under "divine decree".
2. Stigmatize those who don't feel as you do.
3. Outlaw their freedom to choose.
4. By outlawing it, create a model of danger by introducing high-risk criminal types.
5. Point to the danger created by outlawing it and saying, "See? See how dangerous it is?"

A friend who does high-end prostitution earns $30,000 on a long weekend and that's with one guy. She's pretty happy, though there certainly are risks (one guy mistreated her). But then, another friend of mine worked in a factory and got his hand mangled, and he wasn't earning $30k in one weekend. In fact, it took him more than a year to earn that amount because he's in the 20k's in today's economy.

There's all sorts of these types of examples, and my argument is based on legalizing prostitution, regulating it, and outlaw and punish those who abuse it or are criminals in any event.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby spongebob » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:45 pm

Keep The Reason wrote:A friend who does high-end prostitution earns $30,000 on a long weekend and that's with one guy.


$30,000 in one weekend? Who's the "john"? Richard Gere? :lol:
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Keep The Reason » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:10 pm

spongebob wrote:
Keep The Reason wrote:A friend who does high-end prostitution earns $30,000 on a long weekend and that's with one guy.


$30,000 in one weekend? Who's the "john"? Richard Gere? :lol:


She's made more than a million... and she's 26 years old. Mother of 3. Owns her home, no debt. Sweet, lovely, friendly, and a member of Mensa.
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Re: Prostitution

Postby Rian » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:43 pm

Dr M and Sponge - What I'm trying to point out is that sex is something beautiful, and something shared between people that love each other, and that's why rape is a crime, among other things - it takes something very valuable away from someone. That's what I was trying to point out with bringing up rape. And that's how prostitution is different from athletics - it involves sex, which is tied to love very strongly. I don't think prostitutes are looked down on because sex is something shameful. Quite the opposite, in fact. I think prostitution is looked down on because sex is beautiful, and many people feel that it's wrong to sell something beautiful and personal. Sports doesn't involve that personal aspect, and that's a big difference.
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