Atheists: Would you like to believe there is a good god?

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Atheist: Would you like to believe in a good god?

Yes
12
46%
No
5
19%
Dont Care
9
35%
 
Total votes : 26

Postby Norton » Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:51 pm

The question wasn't "do you think it's plausible?" or "do you think there is evidence?" or "would you like it if the Christian God existed?" It was plain and simple: would you like to believe there is a good god, or would it be a good thing to discover there really is a good god?

And the first three answers I heard from atheists were: no/don't care, don't care, and don't care.

How else should I interpret that and statements like: "If you were to propose an idyllic situation, that would seem creepy and I would likely reject it as well"?

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Postby spongebob » Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:20 pm

Norton wrote:The question wasn't "do you think it's plausible?" or "do you think there is evidence?" or "would you like it if the Christian God existed?" It was plain and simple: would you like to believe there is a good god, or would it be a good thing to discover there really is a good god?

And the first three answers I heard from atheists were: no/don't care, don't care, and don't care.

How else should I interpret that and statements like: "If you were to propose an idyllic situation, that would seem creepy and I would likely reject it as well"?

Norton


You could start by not adding words that were not stated. And my quote you just stated isn't related to our existing reality, but to the reality that Christians suggest is possible through a god makeover of the earth.

I said "don't care" because I don't think a god is necessary to get the existence we have now. It would be kind of startling because I just don't see how I could rationalize how this "good" god made the world we see. It would not be consistent and would be confusing. If we had an idyllic world, however, it might make sense that this 'good' god existed, but it would seem creepy, mainly because I'm not used to a world where nothing bad ever happens. I would be continually waiting for the proverbial shoe to drop.

I could just as easily flip this over and judge you the same way. Pose the question to a Christian of whether he would "like" to believe that there is no god, that we are completely natural beings with no supernatural soul and what do you suspect he would say? Why "no" of course. Very closed-minded of him. Touché to you.

But I reiterate; it's really a stupid question anyway and I'm vastly sorry I ever answered it. Just something else for Norton to judge us on. That seems to be the only joy Christians really have.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Postby mikedsjr » Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:47 pm

whoosanightowl wrote:
sue, so don't blame man?

Of course not, it's because of the lies of the Evil Captain Hook and his comrades that men are blinded to the truth of fairygoddes, T.B.

I ask a legit question, and I get an attack.
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Postby whoosanightowl » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:03 am

whoosanightowl wrote:
Quote:
sue, so don't blame man?

Of course not, it's because of the lies of the Evil Captain Hook and his comrades that men are blinded to the truth of fairygoddes, T.B.


I ask a legit question, and I get an attack.

Mike, I'm not sure what you mean by, so don't blame man? Are you referring to my fictional scenario or yours? How can man be to blame when he was set up from the beginning to fail?
If your God knew everything that would ever happen before he created anything, why did he ever create angels? According to your doctrine, he deliberately created angels, even knowing Lucifer and his dominion would rebel against him and end up tricking the majority of his beloved creation, humanity, into not believing in him, thereby sending them to hell for eternity.
Is this an attribute of a "good" god? Or a "loving" father? Would you think it a good and loving thing for a human father to deliberately set up his child to fail, then torture him for the rest of his life when he does?
Or would you blame the child?
Alice:`There's no use trying, one can't believe impossible things.'
Queen:`...you haven't had much practice, When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.
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Postby whoosanightowl » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:07 am

would you like to believe there is a good god, or would it be a good thing to discover there really is a good god?

Norton,
Would you, or any other Christian, like to believe there is a good fairygodmother, or would it be a good thing to discover there really is a good fairygodmother?
Alice:`There's no use trying, one can't believe impossible things.'
Queen:`...you haven't had much practice, When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.
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Postby whoosanightowl » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:10 am

If belief in a good god or the discovery of a good god were to cause as much hatred and distrust among humanity as all the good gods have so far, then I would just as soon not know or believe.
Alice:`There's no use trying, one can't believe impossible things.'
Queen:`...you haven't had much practice, When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.
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Postby cleve » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:07 am

spongebob wrote:
Norton wrote: [The question] was plain and simple: would you like to believe there is a good god, or would it be a good thing to discover there really is a good god?


SpongeBob, will you accept a God who accepts you? Do you think any of the following points apply to yourself? No matter how you feel about the following statements, is it OK with you if God accepts you the way you are?
(a) You're just "fine being human".
(b) Why does God have to change things? You like them the way they are.
(c) You don't like to see people being changed by religious gods.
(d) For the most part, you accept the World the way it is.
(e) You're here to help purify philosiphy.
(f) You're open to accepting a good god, but you live in a world of facts.
Since God accepts you the way you are for His purpose, don't you think the rest of us should do the same?
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Postby spongebob » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:59 am

cleve wrote:SpongeBob, will you accept a God who accepts you? Do you think any of the following points apply to yourself? No matter how you feel about the following statements, is it OK with you if God accepts you the way you are?
(a) You're just "fine being human".
(b) Why does God have to change things? You like them the way they are.
(c) You don't like to see people being changed by religious gods.
(d) For the most part, you accept the World the way it is.
(e) You're here to help purify philosiphy.
(f) You're open to accepting a good god, but you live in a world of facts.
Since God accepts you the way you are for His purpose, don't you think the rest of us should do the same?


These questions are moot since I reject the notion of a willful, supernatural entity. But I would accept the existence of any sort of god if it revealed itself to me and demonstrated its supernatural power.

But isn't this prosletyzing, Cleve? Don't you understand that this is the very thing that drives atheists nuts?
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Postby cleve » Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:57 pm

spongebob wrote:
cleve wrote:SpongeBob, will you accept a God who accepts you? Do you think any of the following points apply to yourself? No matter how you feel about the following statements, is it OK with you if God accepts you the way you are?
(a) You're just "fine being human".
(b) Why does God have to change things? You like them the way they are.
(c) You don't like to see people being changed by religious gods.
(d) For the most part, you accept the World the way it is.
(e) You're here to help purify philosiphy.
(f) You're open to accepting a good god, but you live in a world of facts.
Since God accepts you the way you are for His purpose, don't you think the rest of us should do the same?


These questions are moot since I reject the notion of a willful, supernatural entity. But I would accept the existence of any sort of god if it revealed itself to me and demonstrated its supernatural power.

But isn't this prosletyzing, Cleve? Don't you understand that this is the very thing that drives atheists nuts?


Peace was my motive. Haven't been to church for so long, can't remember how long.
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Postby mikedsjr » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:16 pm

whoosanightowl wrote:Mike, I'm not sure what you mean by, so don't blame man? Are you referring to my fictional scenario or yours? How can man be to blame when he was set up from the beginning to fail?


So if you put your child in a locked room and he starves to death, it is God's fault? not yours? If you kill your husband, its God's fault?

Of are you saying it isn't no ones fault? Stuff happens?

You said the living conditions of people around the world prove God doesn't exist. Yet, most of the reasons that these people are in the conditions they are is because of other people not caring for their lives.
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Postby mikedsjr » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:36 pm

whoosanightowl wrote:Mike, I'm not sure what you mean by, so don't blame man? Are you referring to my fictional scenario or yours? How can man be to blame when he was set up from the beginning to fail?

You basically said that there is no God because of living conditions, yet most people living conditions is due to other people.
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Postby whoosanightowl » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:54 pm

So if you put your child in a locked room and he starves to death, it is God's fault? not yours? If you kill your husband, its God's fault?
Of are you saying it isn't no ones fault? Stuff happens?

Mike,
Isn't it the Christian belief that we send ourselves to hell for simply not believing in Jesus as our savior, god's son, the second person in the trinity, born of a virgin, resurrected from the dead, ascended into heaven etc.? Most of us have never starved our chiildren to death or killed our spouse (although many have possibly at least considered it :wink: ), but if we did, of course it would be our fault. Likewise, any other acts we commit against another human being would be our fault.
However, the "sin" of rejecting the Jesus story does not make us worthy of eternal punishment unless he reveals himself to each of us personally, worldwide. If he choses to play hide and seek, then he cannot blame us for not believing in him any more than Buddah, Zeus or Tinker Bell could blame you for not believing in them. They are all mythical creatures unless they prove to us otherwise, beyond any doubt whatsoever, that they truely exist and are "god".
Alice:`There's no use trying, one can't believe impossible things.'
Queen:`...you haven't had much practice, When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.
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Postby Norton » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:21 pm

SB,

Take a Mississippi chill pill dude. I'm not judging you. I guess I'm now realizing that you (and maybe the others?) simply didn't like the question and didn't want to answer it and so you decided to answer a different question. That's fine. No big deal.

Sue,

Sure, I would like to believe in a good fairy godmother. Santa Clause too. Who wouldn't like the idea of these people? It would be a wonderful thing if I discovered that Santa Clause was real and that he really did give gifts to people on Christmas Eve. That would be awesome!

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Postby whoosanightowl » Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:16 pm

Sue,

Sure, I would like to believe in a good fairy godmother. Santa Clause too. Who wouldn't like the idea of these people? It would be a wonderful thing if I discovered that Santa Clause was real and that he really did give gifts to people on Christmas Eve. That would be awesome!

Right, Norman, but would you be likely to believe in either of them without significant verifiable evidence? I mean there are lots of ancient writings about other gods, many with the same qualities as yours, yet you have no problem denying their existence, right? So what's the difference?
Alice:`There's no use trying, one can't believe impossible things.'
Queen:`...you haven't had much practice, When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.
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Postby Atheist37 » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:52 pm

Norton wrote:The question wasn't "do you think it's plausible?" or "do you think there is evidence?" or "would you like it if the Christian God existed?" It was plain and simple: would you like to believe there is a good god, or would it be a good thing to discover there really is a good god?

And the first three answers I heard from atheists were: no/don't care, don't care, and don't care.

Norton,

Perhaps I wasn't very clear. My "don't care" answer is based on the phrase "would you like to believe". What I like and what I believe are not necessarily related.

Example: Would I like to believe that ice cream will burn off 10 times its weight in body fat? Well, I would prefer that ice cream is the world's greatest diet food, absolutely. But I would not like to believe such a thing because then I'm going to get a whole lot fatter.

So, yes I think that the existence of a benevolent deity would be wonderful. But I would not like to believe such a thing unless it happened to be true. And in that case, I would simply accept it as fact without preference or bias, assuming I had adequate evidence.
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