The Venting thread

[Rian]

This is another thread that we have on another forum, and it's just nice to blow off some steam among friends

(Let's please not blow off about Christians and Atheists here, though, or at the very least, not in insulting ways)


Vent: When people don't call you back when they're supposed to, and you really, really need to talk with them. I've been trying to get a hold of the school guidance counselor to set up my son's senior year classes, and to make an appointment with the pediatric orthopedist for my middle son's back, and they just aren't returning calls

[Rian]

And I miss my friends from California so, so much This has been a hard move (CA to AZ). These are friends that I've had for almost 20 years, and we've been through SO much together. And phone calls just aren't the same

[spongebob]

Rian, I can relate with you on this one. When we moved from Pensacola after 12 years, we left behind a lot of friends and a whole lifestyle. We moved closer to family, which was good, but losing that close contact with friends was harder than I ever expected. But we’ve been able to continue visiting with them and are closer than ever. And I reconnected with my family and enjoyed their company more than previously.

[Richard]

Something always bothers me in many action movies. In a neutral setting, the bad guy provokes with words the good guy and the good guy always comes swinging. No intelligent retort, no sarcasm, no holding your temper, it seems it's considered a quality to respond with violence to words. WTF?

[Rian]

Yeah, Richard, that's certainly a trend

That's good to hear, SB - these women are so special to me, and I'd hate to lose touch. When I last went back to CA, we got together for dinner and closed the place down - talked for over 3 hours. So it's encouraging to hear your experience.

Vent - the crazy drivers in Arizona who like to a leave 4+ car gap between themselves and the car ahead of them at red lights. It messes up people behind them (makes them stop sooner than they expected, and makes a chain reaction back so people have to stop hard) and it's just plain irritating! Then after you stop, they start creeping up after a few seconds so THEY have a nice buffer around themselves. I always creep right back up to a normal spot behind them, just to bug 'em! The other day, there were 2 of these twits in a row. It was just ridiculous - the whole line of cars behind them was constantly moving up during the red light.

[spongebob]

Here's a vent for you. Originally, I joined this forum for two purposes. I was elated that I could share ideas with other atheists since there were none in my area that I knew of. The other was that I *thought* I could share ideas and build a cooperative bridge with theists. WRONG! It didn't take long to realize that virtually no theist comes to any forum to build bridges. The vast majority are only interested in bludgeoning atheists with their Bibles (Tony, Gabe, Catholic, mike...lots of others). There are some who are interested in sharing common ideas and seeking common ground at least some of the time, but even those (you know who you guys are) usually fall back into fighting position when a controversial issue comes up. I think I've met maybe 2 who didn't fit this mold. I suppose I'm just as guilty of digging in and not walking away. But I honestly tried many times to approach issues with an open hand. Christians most often have staunch positions on things, positions that are inflexible. Athiests have only one staunch position, and that is that we don't believe in god. Anything else is up for review and if a good enough reason or argument or evidence is presented, we're willing to consider other options. But, as I said, because the general tone of most Christians is not to seek common ground, but rather to convince others of their absolute "rightness", it leaves the atheist with only two options, argue back or just avoid discussion.

[Rian]

First of all, SB, did you realize this thread was an attempt, by a Christian, to seek common ground? I've just found that sharing life's little gripes with others is a way to draw closer - it gives information about people, and gives people a chance to identify, and then laugh and/or comfort and/or give advice together. How you responded to my vent about moving was a perfect example. You said that you could relate to me (something that's been rare on this forum! ) and shared a similar experience of your own that comforted me. And I think, at least for a moment, we drew a little closer. Richard shared a vent, and I identified with that - and now we know a little more about Richard and the values he cares about. And all this was non-confrontative, too.

On another thread, you said, "Look, obviously we're not here to build friendships, but to exchange ideas." Maybe that's part of the problem, SB. I'm looking to exchange ideas AND build friendships, and I think that's something that will help build bridges. But obviously that attitude has to come from both sides - friendship is a two-way street.

But I honestly tried many times to approach issues with an open hand. Christians most often have staunch positions on things, positions that are inflexible. Athiests have only one staunch position, and that is that we don't believe in god. Anything else is up for review and if a good enough reason or argument or evidence is presented, we're willing to consider other options.

But the difficulty is most atheists' definition of "good enough reason or argument or evidence" - it precludes, from the start, pretty much any chance of their being convinced out of their position. Like a poster here who said he would believe in God if he saw proof of God's existence - then turned around and on another thread stated that even if God appeared to him, he'd think it was a delusion.

I've honestly tried to approach issues openly too, SB, and I just haven't seen any arguments or evidence from your side that has made me change my mind.

But, as I said, because the general tone of most Christians is not to seek common ground, but rather to convince others of their absolute "rightness", it leaves the atheist with only two options, argue back or just avoid discussion.

From at least this Christian's POV, the general tone of most of the non-Christians here is the same - convince others of their absolute rightness. And I don't have a problem with that at all. When I have the problem is when it gets to be disrespectful, because I think that members should strive hard to abide by the motto of this forum: "where differences and respect co-exist". And most of them do, most of the time. But from my POV, it's the non-Christian side that, by far, is most disrespectful. Possibly that's due to the nature of the discussion - obviously, non-Christians ARE non-Christians because they don't believe in Christianity, and it's somewhat natural to think that someone that DOES is crazy or whatever. But I hope they can see that there's another possibility - that the Christian has experienced something in his/her life that the non-Christian has NOT, and thus CANNOT rightly evaluate - and that something is indeed a valid reason for the Christian to believe that Christianity is true.

[Rian]

And now to return to our regularly-scheduled vents -

Ugh - yesterday was our first triple-digit day - 111 degrees! You feel like you're getting mugged when you walk outside. And today's just as hot! Thankfully, it's supposed to be cooler on Thursday - the day of the class party at a water park where we'll be outside all day long.

OMGoodness, I miss California! We were north of LA, and got some ocean influence and very pleasant weather. And I really, REALLY miss the green ... at least our house here has an unusual (for Arizona) amount of trees. The desert landscape just kind of dries up my soul sometimes - and seeing some of the lovely trees in our back yard refreshes it. I also keep a little table fountain in our kitchen, and want to get a larger one for the back yard. I just love the sound of running water!!!!!! esp. here in Arizona. And the air is just harsh here - when we go back to CA, the air is just softer, somehow. I never realized what a difference it makes to have moisture in the air until we moved here.

Actually, though, I'd prefer the Arizona weather over the extreme cold of the Eastern states, or the mugginess of the South. It's just that the California weather is so wonderful ... *sniff*

(there were those irritating little earthquakes, however ... )

[whoosanightowl]

And I really, REALLY miss the green ... at least our house here has an unusual (for Arizona) amount of trees. The desert landscape just kind of dries up my soul sometimes - and seeing some of the lovely trees in our back yard refreshes it. I also keep a little table fountain in our kitchen, and want to get a larger one for the back yard. I just love the sound of running water!!!!!! esp. here in Arizona. And the air is just harsh here - when we go back to CA, the air is just softer, somehow. I never realized what a difference it makes to have moisture in the air until we moved here.

My daughter went to Arizona last summer to visit her cousin, and she said the same thing about the lack of green everywhere, and that it got depressing after a while. But my niece and her husband seem to enjoy living there, they moved from Indiana after they got married about 4 years ago because they were both offered teaching positions. But I know it would be way too hot for me, even here in Michigan it gets too hot (and muggy!) for comfort. I don't know how people tolerated summer before air conditioning!
I love the sound of running water too, Rian, it's so relaxing and soothing! We stayed at a campground several miles from Niagra Falls, Canada when our kids were younger, and when it got real quiet late at night, we could hear the faint thundering of the falls from our camper.

I'm looking to exchange ideas AND build friendships, and I think that's something that will help build bridges

.
I enjoy the debating of issues very much and also appreciate the "pen-pal" type of bonds I've formed with many regular posters, some more than others of course. Personally, I find the combination to be both intellectually rewarding and emotionally fulfilling. And truthfully, if it were simply an impersonal exchange of ideas, I'd probably have lost interest long ago.

[Rian]

My daughter went to Arizona last summer to visit her cousin, and she said the same thing about the lack of green everywhere, and that it got depressing after a while. But my niece and her husband seem to enjoy living there, they moved from Indiana after they got married about 4 years ago because they were both offered teaching positions. But I know it would be way too hot for me, even here in Michigan it gets too hot (and muggy!) for comfort. I don't know how people tolerated summer before air conditioning!

Yeah, ours is on 24/7 in the summer. Well, lots of people seem to like it here - it's been growing like crazy. I've just decided to do little things like put fountains in the kitchen.

I love the sound of running water too, Rian, it's so relaxing and soothing! We stayed at a campground several miles from Niagra Falls, Canada when our kids were younger, and when it got real quiet late at night, we could hear the faint thundering of the falls from our camper.

That sounds so nice! Like when we go beach camping, and you fall asleep to the sounds of the crashing surf. I just love water, it looks and sounds so pretty. The little patterns it makes are endlessly fascinating to me.

I enjoy the debating of issues very much and also appreciate the "pen-pal" type of bonds I've formed with many regular posters, some more than others of course. Personally, I find the combination to be both intellectually rewarding and emotionally fulfilling. And truthfully, if it were simply an impersonal exchange of ideas, I'd probably have lost interest long ago.

I TOTALLY agree!

Vent - our old faithful 10-yr-old Olds (128,000 miles) broke down today I hope it's only something minor ... *crosses fingers* It's been so nice to have our oldest son driving it now so that I don't have to do those extra trips for his events, and we can't afford another car right now.

[stickmangrit]

Here's a vent for you. Originally, I joined this forum for two purposes. I was elated that I could share ideas with other atheists since there were none in my area that I knew of. The other was that I *thought* I could share ideas and build a cooperative bridge with theists. WRONG! It didn't take long to realize that virtually no theist comes to any forum to build bridges. The vast majority are only interested in bludgeoning atheists with their Bibles (Tony, Gabe, Catholic, mike...lots of others). There are some who are interested in sharing common ideas and seeking common ground at least some of the time, but even those (you know who you guys are) usually fall back into fighting position when a controversial issue comes up. I think I've met maybe 2 who didn't fit this mold. I suppose I'm just as guilty of digging in and not walking away. But I honestly tried many times to approach issues with an open hand. Christians most often have staunch positions on things, positions that are inflexible. Athiests have only one staunch position, and that is that we don't believe in god. Anything else is up for review and if a good enough reason or argument or evidence is presented, we're willing to consider other options. But, as I said, because the general tone of most Christians is not to seek common ground, but rather to convince others of their absolute "rightness", it leaves the atheist with only two options, argue back or just avoid discussion.

you say this like it's a problem.

look, nobody jumped farhter down these folks throats than i did, and i never saw it as a difficulty. at the end of the day you, A37 and nightowl always had my back, and koin, narsil, and norton were typically open to reason. it's an internet forum for christ's sake, surely you didn't expect us to be having nice chats over tea and cookies constantly. the point was always that we could go at each others throats for a while, and then go down to the fellowship hall and debate sports, movies and music.

and seriously, why are we still acknowledging Catholic as a person? that f***er was a troll from day one. he used wierd-ass Hong Kong proxies, dished out the most horrid bile i had ever seen, and was generally an ass to everyone on the board. he was a fake, and everyone has seemed to forgotten this but me.

[Emery]

Welcome back Stick, nobody can share the luv like you can!

[whoosanightowl]

Vent - our old faithful 10-yr-old Olds (128,000 miles) broke down today I hope it's only something minor ... *crosses fingers* It's been so nice to have our oldest son driving it now so that I don't have to do those extra trips for his events, and we can't afford another car right now.

You know, Rian, 128,000 miles shouldn't be the end of life for an Oldsmobile regardless of how old it is, as long as it's been well maintained over the years. It's probably something not too serious or expensive *joins you in crossing fingers*, but even if it is, it may be worthwhile in the long run to fix it if everything else still checks okay. I mean, a few hundred dollar repair is still less costly than a monthly car payment, expecially if you can get another few years and possibly 200,000 miles or so out of it!

[spongebob]

First of all, SB, did you realize this thread was an attempt, by a Christian, to seek common ground? I've just found that sharing life's little gripes with others is a way to draw closer - it gives information about people, and gives people a chance to identify, and then laugh and/or comfort and/or give advice together. How you responded to my vent about moving was a perfect example. You said that you could relate to me (something that's been rare on this forum! ) and shared a similar experience of your own that comforted me. And I think, at least for a moment, we drew a little closer. Richard shared a vent, and I identified with that - and now we know a little more about Richard and the values he cares about. And all this was non-confrontative, too.

I wasn't going to post today, but I got a free moment and checked the board and saw this counter-Rant by Rian. All I can say is...good point.

And I just can't help it, so I apologize in advance. I don't think "non-conrontative" is officially a word. I think you meant nonconfrontational.

On another thread, you said, "Look, obviously we're not here to build friendships, but to exchange ideas." Maybe that's part of the problem, SB. I'm looking to exchange ideas AND build friendships, and I think that's something that will help build bridges. But obviously that attitude has to come from both sides - friendship is a two-way street.

I guess I never considered that as a real possibility, but maybe it is with some. So, I guess we should all presume that everyone else on the forum is a potential "friend" and show equal degrees of respect and consideration. Personally, I think that is a stretch if you still want to hash out the sensitive subjects we dicuss here. And I've seen confirmation for that from just about every corner.

I've honestly tried to approach issues openly too, SB, and I just haven't seen any arguments or evidence from your side that has made me change my mind.

I so think there is one area where you could use more openmindedness, and that is in the area of scientific research. I have sensed a degree of belief in your posts for things that are generally derived from rumor or a poor understanding of science. I'm not saying you know nothing about science, just that there is often much more to a subject than you seem to comprehend, and that can only lead to misrepresentations.

From at least this Christian's POV, the general tone of most of the non-Christians here is the same - convince others of their absolute rightness. And I don't have a problem with that at all. When I have the problem is when it gets to be disrespectful, because I think that members should strive hard to abide by the motto of this forum: "where differences and respect co-exist". And most of them do, most of the time. But from my POV, it's the non-Christian side that, by far, is most disrespectful. Possibly that's due to the nature of the discussion - obviously, non-Christians ARE non-Christians because they don't believe in Christianity, and it's somewhat natural to think that someone that DOES is crazy or whatever. But I hope they can see that there's another possibility - that the Christian has experienced something in his/her life that the non-Christian has NOT, and thus CANNOT rightly evaluate - and that something is indeed a valid reason for the Christian to believe that Christianity is true.

This could probably spawn a whole host of rants, and there's plenty of fuel available. But to truly understand the concept of "disrespect", you have to understand your antagonist. To Bizazrro, saying "I like you" is a dreadful insult.

[spongebob]

Ugh - yesterday was our first triple-digit day - 111 degrees! You feel like you're getting mugged when you walk outside. And today's just as hot! Thankfully, it's supposed to be cooler on Thursday - the day of the class party at a water park where we'll be outside all day long.

OK, Rian, I am sending you an open invitation to visit me here in Huntsvile, AL, but you have to do it in August when it is 98 Degrees and 100% humidity! If you don't like baking under a heat lamp (in AZ) then you might enjoy boiling in your own body fluids.

Hey, I visited Phoenix 3 or 4 times in the last few years, always in the summer. I actually liked that rocky, dusty terrain and the dry weather. We did some hiking around a small mountain and I kind of felt like Indiana Jones. I remember playing tennis in the afternoon in August (something that can be dangerous here). Of course I drank six gallons of water and my clothes were still dry when I finished. If I tried that here, I would be literally soaked from head to toe.