Dr. Who

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Re: Dr. Who

Postby Moonwood the Hare » Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:42 pm

OzAnt wrote:
Moonwood the Hare wrote:Oh well, as it happens I'm pretty sure so far.
I'd be a bit concerned if you hadn't worked it out by now, champ :-)

Moonwood the Hare wrote:Although that term could get to the same meaning by a different route in the US where fanny means arse apparently.
LOL....hey! Rest assured, I'd never call you an arse! Anal at times, maybe... :-D ...especially when you unexpectedly go all full-blown academically philosophical on me.

Just so we're clear, when you say "fanish", you mean "a great fan of", right?

Moonwood the Hare wrote:I never got that as a kid. Some guy in an MOR American film would say something like, 'All that girl can do is shake her fanny!' and I'd be thinking 'Ooh, that's a bit bold!'
I hear ya. In Australia fanny is also a fairly non-smarmy way of referring to a female's nether pink bits. Until I worked out what Americans meant by fanny, I considered quite a few remarks, not just bold, but even inappropriate!

Moonwood the Hare wrote:Can't remember Tom saying, 'Who knows?' like that back in the day.
Thanks for chiming in, Moonwood. If you can't remember Tom doing that, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet he didn't.

Ant

With Doctor Who fans there are certain kinds of obsessive behaviours that are almost unique. I think you get it with fans of other TV shows but Dr. Who has been around so long and been so much written about that you end up with a whole set of knowledge and references that are meaningless to outsiders. Not unlike religion in certain respects. So for example when David Tennent's Doctor as John Smith in The Family of Blood says, 'I remember my father Sidney and my mother Verity,' many of us are delighted at the reference. There was an article in DWM a few years ago that said only a fan when walking with their loved one will say in response to the tenderly spoken question, 'What is your favourite season?' 'Seventeen. although in general I preferred Hinchcliffe to Williams.'
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Re: Dr. Who

Postby Rian » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:57 pm

Moonwood the Hare wrote:So for example when David Tennent's Doctor as John Smith in The Family of Blood says, 'I remember my father Sidney and my mother Verity,' many of us are delighted at the reference.


I think I found it :

The all-time best in-joke regarding names, stems from a somewhat easy-to-miss line in Modern Who episode Human Nature. When John Smith, a human version of the Doctor filled with false memories, addresses the subject of his origins he says “My father Sidney…and my mother Verity”. This is in tribute to series creator, Sydney Newman, and first producer, Verity Lambert, who are very much the parents of Doctor Who indeed. It is briefly revisited when, on his farewell tour in End of Time, the Tenth Doctor goes to see Joan Redfern’s granddaughter, named Verity Newman.
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Re: Dr. Who

Postby Moonwood the Hare » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:21 pm

Rian wrote:
Moonwood the Hare wrote:So for example when David Tennent's Doctor as John Smith in The Family of Blood says, 'I remember my father Sidney and my mother Verity,' many of us are delighted at the reference.


I think I found it :

The all-time best in-joke regarding names, stems from a somewhat easy-to-miss line in Modern Who episode Human Nature. When John Smith, a human version of the Doctor filled with false memories, addresses the subject of his origins he says “My father Sidney…and my mother Verity”. This is in tribute to series creator, Sydney Newman, and first producer, Verity Lambert, who are very much the parents of Doctor Who indeed. It is briefly revisited when, on his farewell tour in End of Time, the Tenth Doctor goes to see Joan Redfern’s granddaughter, named Verity Newman.

That's the one. The new series sneaks in these titbits. It's also become a lot more postmodern in that it does a lot of things where aspects of the program as a TV program are taken into the fictional world. For example the use of the rhythm of the theme music in 'The Sound of Drums' then suggesting this is the heartbeat of a timelord, something that cannot have been in the mind of the original composer. The doctor saying 'who knows' is another example of this. In fact in the Tom Baker era it was generally accepted that the character was called 'The Doctor' not 'Doctor Who' which was the name of the programme.
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Re: Dr. Who

Postby Rian » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:42 pm

OzAnt wrote:
Rian wrote:What things annoy you about the newer Dr Who, just out of curiosity?
Just the Doctor's explanations that...
OzAnt wrote:deteriorate into quick talking hand gesturing vague approximations skirting around actual technical explanations
(see previous post).
I thought there was more than one, that's all.

I like the fact that they take the mickey out of themselves (eg: John Hurt, "timey whimey!?!?") in this episode and acknowledge that it's corny to the point of squirmishness or at least groaniness at times.
Yes, that's a nice touch.

Rian wrote:I thought it was quite good overall, although strange how they took away one of the main things that make the Doctor who he is - the massive regret over what he did to Gallifrey.
OzAnt wrote:Shucks, Rian. I find this an almost callous statement (and I'm absolutely certain you didn't mean it like that). It's been causing the doctor pain and anguish for hundreds of years! I thought the fact that he gets a chance to fix things is the core beauty of the episode.

More importantly, I thought it was fantastic that the show depicts a future doctor fixing it and not the one that destroyed his planet. It's as if it took the pain and torment experienced by the future doctors (sandshoes {David Tennant} and chinny {Matt Smith}) to give enough impetus to find a solution that didn't involve killing 2.47 billion Gallifreyan kids.

Also, let's not forget that freezing Gallifrey in a single instance in time is considered a "fairly terrible plan" by the Doctors and the only reason it's what they're doing is because the alternative, which are currently seared into the memory of sandshoes and chinny, is far, far worse.

You're right - I didn't mean it like I just LOVE when people get slaughtered! What I meant was ... well, these last 6 years since we moved to Arizona have been rather hellish. We've been through some awful medical stuff, but the mental/relational stuff has been almost as bad, and one of those problems is my sister-in-law. We had no idea (having only been around her on holidays) how bad she was to live near (and we bought a house across the street from her!) We just didn't realize all of the huge issues she had. Before we moved here, I had always thought that as long as two people were willing to talk, they could work things out. Well, she blasted that delusion out of the water and more. I found that the two of us talking only made things WORSE. I finally had to tell her that I would NOT talk to her alone - if she had to talk about something, the only way I would do it was to have both of our husbands present (I phrased this in a nice way, like "we just don't seem to communicate well, so my husband and I have decided that on important talks, the four of us need to be there so we can help each other out", but it's because her mental issues just mess everything up and since she doesn't have any problems, all of the problems MUST be mine). This was because 1) the things that got back to her husband about our talk were nothing like what had actually been said by me (and were always putting me in a terrible light), and 2) her version of reality is very fluid, and shifts around to fit her convenience, even from one minute to the next, and it helps to have her husband say "No, it did NOT happen that way; it happened the way that you said it happened 10 minutes ago", and 3) it helps to have her husband there to reel her in from whatever conclusion she wildly jumps to and explain what was actually said to her until she gets at least some grasp of it. So I'm kind of raw from the whole "all it takes to solve any problem is talking it out and holding hands" kind of thing. And I DO think that sometimes, the right course of action is to fight.

SO - the way that the Gallifrey change hit me was on the raw part of my sister-in-law issues, and it seemed to be kind of a cheap and easy way out, when all of my experience in the past 6 years rather painfully told me that sometimes there IS no easy solution, and people that said otherwise just don't know life.

I see what you're saying, though, and that helps. I guess I'm just rather raw, and I over-reacted. It's been hell here :(

Thanks for all the links, I've really enjoyed them :)

I was rewatching an Eccleston episode last night ("ears"? "nose"?) and I quite like him - he's my second favorite, close behind Tennant. I wish he had had a better experience with the franchise; it's a shame that it went sour. He's acted like a gentleman about it, though, as far as I've seen. He just stays quiet and vague.
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Re: Dr. Who

Postby OzAnt » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:35 am

Hi Rian,

Rian wrote:
Ant wrote:
Rian wrote:...strange how they took away one of the main things that make the Doctor who* he is - the massive regret over what he did to Gallifrey.
Shucks, Rian. I find this an almost callous statement (and I'm absolutely certain you didn't mean it like that).
You're right - I didn't mean it like I just LOVE when people get slaughtered! What I meant was ...
I didn't think you meant it like that :shock:. I'm a little bit saddened that you think I think so little of you that I could imagine you even thinking that! Sounds like your sister-in-law is messing your mind up even more than you realise! I just meant that it was nice that the Doctor no longer has to be burdened with such, as you point out, “massive regret”.

What I meant by callous, was that it would be horrible to want or expect to have the Doctor spend the rest of eternity burdened with this pain (and I point out again, that I'm certain you didn't mean it like this). In terms of making
Rian wrote:the Doctor who he is
two points:
  • from the audience perspective, we only found out about the full horribleness of the event on Gallifrey, so we never had a clear idea of the heartbreak and anguish the Doctor was living in and what his flippant attitude was actually masking anyway
  • he's only had this event shape his psyche for the last two regenerations. Given the "War Doctor" is Doctor 8.5 (in the regeneration timeline -- in other words, he has been eight previous Doctors) and that there's been three Doctors since (not including the upcoming Capaldi), 3/8 = 37.5%, I'd argue that this horrible event has actually not been such a great part in making “the Doctor who he is'. That said, it's certainly a greater part (100% in fact) of who the Doctor is in the minds of viewers who have really only got to know the show since it restarted (with Eccleston – officially the ninth doctor) in 2005.

Interestingly perhaps, for me it's like salvation for the Doctor without the need for Jesus (or any other deity). Specifically, for me, “The Day of the Doctor” makes more sense than the New Testament in terms of redemption. I wonder if maybe you see it like this too on some level and it subconsciously bothers you that there's fantasy in existence that suggests somebody can save themselves? :?

I'm sorry to hear about your sister-in-law and her mental issues putting a strain on you and your family's life. I don't know whether you're being too kind in suggesting they're mental issues. I've had the misfortune of meeting people whose
Rian wrote:version of reality is very fluid
(love your wording :-))
and I've never considered it to be a mental issue. I've summed 'em up as lowlifes and as such people to distance myself from. Hmm, I might have been too abrupt and uninformed -- food for thought. Of course, family is much harder to distance oneself from. Good luck with your endeavours on that front.

Rian wrote:Thanks for all the links, I've really enjoyed them :)
Nice to hear they're appreciated :-)

Ant

*Incidentally, I take it you're not apologising for that pun? :-D :-D
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Re: Dr. Who

Postby Rian » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:59 pm

OzAnt wrote:I didn't think you meant it like that :shock:. I'm a little bit saddened that you think I think so little of you that I could imagine you even thinking that!
No, I'm not saying it right. I didn't think that you thought I meant that, because you said "I'm absolutely certain you didn't mean it like that". Awww, stupid typed communication! Anyway, it's all good :)

Sounds like your sister-in-law is messing your mind up even more than you realise!

Yeah, she really is. We've had to distance ourselves from her quite a bit, and make "rules of engagement" with her (like I will NOT talk with her alone on any difficult subject). It's sad, but if she weren't family, I would be happy to never see her again; she's caused such pain to every member of the family that lives here. I mean, no one is perfect, but she's in her own category ... Also, I'm sure there's some cultural misunderstanding (she's from Colombia), but as other Latinas I know have pointed out, they don't act like that!

I just meant that it was nice that the Doctor no longer has to be burdened with such, as you point out, “massive regret”.
Yes, it was a brilliant thing to come up with! Who woulda thunk it? That crazy Moffat! (I can't wait for the next Sherlock - do you like Sherlock?)

What I meant by callous, was that it would be horrible to want or expect to have the Doctor spend the rest of eternity burdened with this pain (and I point out again, that I'm certain you didn't mean it like this). In terms of making
Rian wrote:the Doctor who he is
two points:
  • from the audience perspective, we only found out about the full horribleness of the event on Gallifrey, so we never had a clear idea of the heartbreak and anguish the Doctor was living in and what his flippant attitude was actually masking anyway
  • he's only had this event shape his psyche for the last two regenerations. Given the "War Doctor" is Doctor 8.5 (in the regeneration timeline -- in other words, he has been eight previous Doctors) and that there's been three Doctors since (not including the upcoming Capaldi), 3/8 = 37.5%, I'd argue that this horrible event has actually not been such a great part in making “the Doctor who he is'. That said, it's certainly a greater part (100% in fact) of who the Doctor is in the minds of viewers who have really only got to know the show since it restarted (with Eccleston – officially the ninth doctor) in 2005.

Yes, interesting points! Until this last episode, I thought that the War Doctor was the very first doctor; i.e., Hartnell was #1 because he was the 1st regeneration. Interesting how they slipped Hurt in in the gap between Drs 8 and 9 ... I wonder how much more will be slipped in there? Really, it gives them quite a bit of leeway for some interesting things ...

Interestingly perhaps, for me it's like salvation for the Doctor without the need for Jesus (or any other deity). Specifically, for me, “The Day of the Doctor” makes more sense than the New Testament in terms of redemption. I wonder if maybe you see it like this too on some level and it subconsciously bothers you that there's fantasy in existence that suggests somebody can save themselves? :?
Oh, I don't know - I think that we need to do a lot of saving of ourselves anyway. I don't think God does all the work. I think he walks with us though it, though, and he does give help when we simply cannot do something because something in us is missing or damaged. I think Christianity takes a lot of work, but most if not all good things take work!

I'm sorry to hear about your sister-in-law and her mental issues putting a strain on you and your family's life. I don't know whether you're being too kind in suggesting they're mental issues. I've had the misfortune of meeting people whose
Rian wrote:version of reality is very fluid
(love your wording :-))
and I've never considered it to be a mental issue. I've summed 'em up as lowlifes and as such people to distance myself from. Hmm, I might have been too abrupt and uninformed -- food for thought. Of course, family is much harder to distance oneself from. Good luck with your endeavours on that front.
Yeah, that's a work in progress. She's on meds, too, so I don't think it's just a case of the nasties. And she often has this vacant look in her eyes like she's trying to get it but just can't. But then again, she's often very much all there, although warped. Anyway, we do our best to love her, but in a way that is safe for us (like I'll pick up a Starbucks for her sometimes and drop it off because I know she loves it, but I won't stay and talk. I just need some space to heal from her).

Rian wrote:Thanks for all the links, I've really enjoyed them :)
Nice to hear they're appreciated :-)

Ant
I re-watched the 5-ish Drs last night - it makes me smile :) I have a bit of a grandpa-crush on Sylvester McCoy - he is just so cute! When we went back to Atlanta for my aunt's funeral, my daughter just loved all the cute little old people - she would say "Cute grandma alert at 2 o'clock!" :D

ps - whoops, I didn't even see that pun!
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Re: Dr. Who

Postby Rian » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:01 pm

Just showed the kids five-ish, and they LOVED it! I'm so glad Davison made it; it was nice that all the old crew that didn't make it into the 50th were able to be in this.
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Re: Dr. Who

Postby Rian » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:36 am

OK, just a few more days until the new Doctor!!!
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Re: Dr. Who

Postby Keep The Reason » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:17 pm

To cut some folks off at the pass, I don't advocate for violence, oppression, genocide, war, hatred or intolerance. Instead, I advocate for education, organization, activism, and the democratic process. ~~ KtR
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Re: Dr. Who

Postby Rian » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:16 am

Awww, I love Gossamer!!! Thanks!
"Aurë entuluva! Auta i lómë!" ("Day shall come again! The night is passing!") -- from JRR Tolkien's The Silmarillion

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Re: Dr. Who

Postby Rian » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:04 am

did anyone see the Christmas special? I won't see it until I get home in a few days. I have high hopes for the newest doctor, and I love Clara (hated Amy most of the time), so I'm hoping for some good shows!
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Re: Dr. Who

Postby OzAnt » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:25 pm

Rian wrote:did anyone see the Christmas special? I won't see it until I get home in a few days. I have high hopes for the newest doctor, and I love Clara (hated Amy most of the time), so I'm hoping for some good shows!


Watched it before going camping... well, mostly camping... a fairly rudimentary shack is involved -- one so rudimentary in fact, that a tent would easily stop more bugs. Luckily, in Tassie, bags aren't too much of a problem.

Anyway, I didn't mind it and I'll have to watch it again because I think I was too distracted at the time to properly take it in (or the story sucked, which at this stage I doubt). That said, it's never going to be as good as The Day of the Doctor (2013) which I was fortunate enough to see in a cinema in 3D.

Also, my take on Peter Capaldi, at the end of the episode with the bulging eyes thing, was him trying to impersonate Tom Baker. I note that somebody on another forum didn't see it that way and instead asked, "What's with Capaldi doing a Frank Spencer impersonation?!" What a diverse world we live in, eh? Also, wait for it... some mothers do 'ave 'em (boom boom).

Oh yeah, sorry for forgetting to answer this earlier... I haven't watched any Sherlock.

Happy New Year, darl!

Ant
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Re: Dr. Who

Postby Rian » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:53 am

And a Happy New Year to you, too!

And here's a funny little thing that happened, speaking of how I like Clara - we just got a new dog after our wonderful, beloved, huge furry Bernese Mountain dog mix passed away this summer. We went to the local shelter and picked out a sweet little girl doggie. And guess what her name was listed as? Clara!

I thought the Christmas special/farewell to Matt Smith was good - not great, but quite good, and was a nice send-off for him. I liked the "Handles" thing, esp. at the end. I liked the funny reference to Tennant's regenerating into himself (something like "he had ego issues") :D And I liked the idea of the Time Lords peeping in thru the crack in time and being convinced by Clara's plea and sending him another set of regenerations.

Looking forward to Capaldi's turn - I think it has some good potential. And I'd recommend Sherlock to you, especially the opening part of the last episode with Moriarty in the Tower - really brilliant!
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Re: Dr. Who

Postby Rian » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:43 pm

Thoughts on the new Doctor? I thought the episode was a little unevenly written; didn't like the first part so much where he was going thru post-regeneration stuff, but it had some genuinely creepy moments in the true Doctor Who style, like where the people are in the restaurant and you think they're eating but they aren't. It was very clever how that totally surprised you. Some plot holes, too. Overall, some good and some bad, but I think Peter Capaldi will work out as long as the episodes are well-written.
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Re: Dr. Who

Postby Baz86 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:36 pm

I swear I'm still catching up. It's still a mystery to this member of the English Commonwealth.

I was hooked when my friend showed me the Weeping Angels episode. It tripped me out!
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