Coming out as an atheist

[joekohr]

Thanks, marcus, I'll check it out. I see they have some podcasts, too. Sounds interesting.

[Kiwi]

I'm not sure if ex-christians.net is the same site I looked at over a year ago, but back then it had a homepage with a no smoking style 'No Jesus' icon on it. At the time that put me off as I was looking for respect rather than bitter ex-Christians.

In any case, the site you've pointed us to has either changed their look or it's a different one. Looks interesting, thanks Marcus.

Looks like joe and I are the forum's resident newly lost sheep.

[spongebob]

Only having considered myself an agnostic now for two weeks (although, I have been skeptical for quit some time), I think it might take maybe a year or so before I feel like I can talk about this with those around me. Me and my wife are still very involved in the church and are meeting new couples every week. I'm slow to bring up my skepticism with my wife. I feel like I'm hiding some devious secret. Last night our church had a couples night, and they talked about how you grow together as two people to become one. All I could think about, was what if one of them changes fundamentally, like I did. How can you grow as one, then?

I hope everyone around is supportive and is willing to accept you for you are. I definitely see the parallels between coming out as an atheist and coming out as being gay.

To me that endpoint of "two become one" is hollow. If the two really did become one, even metaphorically, then that would mean that each one was only a half, which I find insulting. My wife and I see many things eye to eye, and many things very differently. We've been married for 21 years and are as close as any couple we know. If someone described us as "one", I would be quick to argue. We are not one. What we are is a good team, and team members don't have to hold all the same beliefs, but they do need to have the same goals and objectives. If those goals include what they see as best for their children, then I think an atheist/theist couple have some obstacles. My wife is not an atheist, but could be described as a deist. So, she sees no more value in our children becoming die-hard Baptists than I do, but she does want them to be educated in Christian history and ideas. Turns out I do, too. So, we are not one, but our goals align enough that our differences are not a problem.

[joekohr]

Marriage doesn't mean that 2 = 1? That's a new concept for me. That was just something that I always accepted. I'm going to have to spend some time considering that one. I see your point, though. I never have expected my wife to either be a clone of me, or fulfill all of my needs. Sometimes I need a guy's perspective. And, there's several things that we don't agree on.

But, there's still a sense of a family unit being cohesive. I don't know if I'm ready to change my thinking on this. I think that a family does have to have cohesion, even if that includes compromises. I don't think one spouse is half a person, but they are half of a family unit.

Well, that's something for me to think about, thanks, SB.

[Sharmie]

My husband explored the idea of atheism by means of several sessions of "101 Questions about Christianity". I was convinced he was agnostic, so when he came out full-blown atheist, I was a bit surprised. He blurted it out one day when I was keyboard-deep in religious discussion. A protest of sorts, methinks.

But the most jolting 'coming out' he did was with his mam. They were at a walk-in doctor's surgery (he thought a surgical incision might be infected) and the desk nurse asked his religious affiliation. His mam said, "Church of England" at the same time he said, "None." She was shocked and upset. He explained to the desk nurse that he was NOT a Christian while his mam tried to convince him that he was. She ended up in tears over it. I found it rather amusing actually (I know, I'm bad); his mam is only Christian in a tick-box fashion. She has never gone to Church, doesn't read the Bible. She is C of E because her mam was C of E... She knows nothing about what it really means, yet she was highly upset by her son's assertion that he was atheist.

But you find that a lot; people who somehow think the 'label' will save your soul. Personally, I'd rather the label be accurate. I may not 'love' the fact that my hubby is an atheist, but I recognise that to call himself 'Christian' would be a lie, therefore I respect and support his decision to 'come out'.

[Brad]

And I still vote that it's better to live honestly with the people you love rather than hiding stuff from them. So it will all come out in the wash eventually, as they say.

Boy, am I glad I looked in on this thread!
So many wonderful, insightful, comments - one favorite of mine is the one I've quoted, which comes from the original questioner! Threads like this make me grateful to have found this little cyber-outpost.
I'd have to admit, however, that I haven't been able to live up to Kiwi's stated ideal in some instances, in part because of my certainty that the response in some parts of my own family would be outright vicious - as has been demonstrated many times even when the difference was one of "hermeneutics" or practice rather than belief.

And I really appreciated NHB's thoughtful mini-bio - thanks for sharing that, NHB.

Regarding marriage, I think what Sponge said is really, really, valid and important.
If I'm not mistaken, the whole notion of "two becoming one" is a religious / mystical construct - an unrealistic and ridiculous and demeaning one, at that. That's in no way to say that many married couples - especially older couples who have been married a long time - don't meld their lives in many very significant intentional and unintentional ways. But as a metaphysical or romantic aspiration, I think "2 into 1" is dangerous and just flat dumb.

As it happens, I'm something of an expert on unrealistic marriage aspirations, but that's another story I don't have time to relate at the moment. I'll just say that I can easily trace at least some of the unrealistic expectations I had to my upbringing as a Christian. And also that, as some may be interested to know, I was married to an incredibly wonderful woman - as close to a saint (yet still lots of fun) as anyone I've ever known. Yet one of the things that led to me wanting a divorce was her adamant atheism. Now isn't that something!

[NH Baritone]

And I really appreciated NHB's thoughtful mini-bio - thanks for sharing that, NHB.

Uh ... you're welcome?

As it happens, I'm something of an expert on unrealistic marriage aspirations, but that's another story I don't have time to relate at the moment. I'll just say that I can easily trace at least some of the unrealistic expectations I had to my upbringing as a Christian. And also that, as some may be interested to know, I was married to an incredibly wonderful woman - as close to a saint (yet still lots of fun) as anyone I've ever known. Yet one of the things that led to me wanting a divorce was her adamant atheism. Now isn't that something!

Irony so thick you would need a chain saw.

[Brad]

Uh ... you're welcome?

Irony so thick you would need a chain saw.

Why the "uh" and the question mark? I just found the details of your history very interesting and forthrightly described.

And yes, a chain saw would just about do it. It wasn't that I was still a believer when I got married, but at the time I just didn't feel that religion and belief was anything other than a generally benign curiosity and I still thought also that the net effects of belief were probably positive. For her part, she'd had experiences and knowledge to which back then I couldn't really relate. She was about fifteen years ahead of me regarding religion and a lot of other things.
Also, as she was an exceptionally bright, capable, and relatively worldly woman, the rather Biblical / Pauline gender roles that I had yet to grow out of and still thought should apply in marriage caused some friction between us. But most of all, I couldn't recognize how great she was, and how lucky I was that she loved me despite my ignorance. In short, I was dumb as a cinder block.
How's that for forthright?

[Kiwi]

Sounds like you wish you'd known better back when you didn't know any better.

Yep. Been there...

[Kiwi]

Tonight's Coming Out As An Atheist Update is brought to you by Monteith's Original Ale (my New Zealand favourite.)

So I now have 12 pages of testimony from my parents, six pages each, that explain why they believe in God. It is in fact very useful and informative and I find myself wondering why I haven't heard or read some of this stuff before. Well written, personal and non-confrontational. Dad didn't try to lodge arguments in favour of God, he simply wrote a spiritual autobiography. Mum responded to various points that I had written, slightly more forcefully than I am used to her being.

It is clear everyone is hurting and trying to find either a reason (what was wrong with his faith to begin with?) or a loophole (he does in fact still believe in God, he just doesn't quite realize it at the moment.)

In retrospect the best thing I did was to consolidate my un-faith for a year before issuing a family media release. It has been a blazing few weeks of questions and I've felt very isolated at times. It has also brought it all to the surface for my wife. She is beginning to amp up her questions for me too. And statements, lots of those: "look at those trees, I can't look at them and imagine there's no Creator." Last night's conversation began, "I wish you hadn't read so many books."

The main message I hear is that my 'heart' faith turned into a 'head' faith and I lost touch with God. I have mostly just listened without offering my perspective. It is too soon, and I don't have the emotional energy for debates.

If I'm not mistaken, the whole notion of "two becoming one" is a religious / mystical construct - an unrealistic and ridiculous and demeaning one, at that. That's in no way to say that many married couples - especially older couples who have been married a long time - don't meld their lives in many very significant intentional and unintentional ways. But as a metaphysical or romantic aspiration, I think "2 into 1" is dangerous and just flat dumb.

there's still a sense of a family unit being cohesive. I don't know if I'm ready to change my thinking on this. I think that a family does have to have cohesion, even if that includes compromises. I don't think one spouse is half a person, but they are half of a family unit.

This is an interesting time for our marriage but people like Joe should take comfort that there's no sign at all it will be end of us. We've had to readjust our approach to the 'formula' and it's not easy, but we're still a cohesive unit. I think 'team' is a better word. Partners. I suspect the hardest time is behind us, as we seem to be moving closer again after an initial lonely distance. Despite her own struggles with my position, my wife is overwhelmingly on my side. For example, when something in an email from my Dad upset me, she was there for me. Doesn't mean she has to agree with my theology (or lack of.) So in one sense I have become a foreigner. But apparently our marriage and love for each other still count.

[spongebob]

So I now have 12 pages of testimony from my parents, six pages each, that explain why they believe in God. It is in fact very useful and informative and I find myself wondering why I haven't heard or read some of this stuff before. Well written, personal and non-confrontational. Dad didn't try to lodge arguments in favour of God, he simply wrote a spiritual autobiography. Mum responded to various points that I had written, slightly more forcefully than I am used to her being.

I've gotten similar responses from my folks. What's interesting about it is that we seldom discussed this stuff before, but now it is somehow relevant? What strikes me most bluntly is how mundane their testimonies are. IOW, they are much like every other Christian's testimony I've encountered. This consistency actually works to reaffirm my lack of belief. There's just not very much there and it makes me wonder why I didn't question it far earlier than I did. But these are my parents and I love them and don't want to hurt them in any way. Being perfectly blunt with them is very difficult because I can almost feel the disappointment oozing out of their bodies.

[NH Baritone]

Kiwi,

This is a step that not everyone finds they need to take, but for you it appears to be necessary. Your family has now been compelled to grapple with an aspect of your life/thought they hadn't realized existed. Because of this revelation, your very presence in their lives has forced them to examine thoughts that they have taken for granted for years ... in many families, for generations.

Remember that they are in the earliest stages of adjustment. Several challenges have been put forth to Kübler-Ross's stages of grief, but I have found them useful in conversations about similar events. Early grief involves attempts to make the loss temporary or false (as you wrote: "he does in fact still believe in God, he just doesn't quite realize it at the moment"). As grief progresses, the emotions become more focused and often negative (e.g., anger, hurt, frustration, defensiveness, sadness). Finally, and the length of time can vary, the change is accepted and incorporated into individual & family life.

These stages are important because the elucidate the problems that arise in conversations. You have already moved through these stages and now accept your own atheism. You may thus become impatient when others don't. Conversations between loved ones can feel like people talking past one another. Simply put, it's hard for "acceptance" to talk to "denial" or "defensiveness," and vice versa.

For now, you should probably rely more on people outside your family for emotional support, at least until your good judgment suggests that it is safe within your family's embrace. However you should remain available throughout to provide support for your family members. They need to see you as fundamentally unchanged. This will help them to shed their prejudices about non-believers and remember who you have always been to them.

Until their time of acceptance, watch for criticism, scorn, and ridicule as they focus all of their fears about faith onto you individually. You are now the scapegoat for their own doubts. And if you don't want to begin resenting them along the way, be certain to limit how much derision you are exposed to. And laugh with them (not at them) as much as you can.

Pax tecum.

[Kiwi]

That's a phenomenal post, Baritone, thanks. Compassionate, insightful and helpful. It's the sort of thing that justifies this forum needing to last forever in case some other new atheist might stumble upon it deep amongst the archives one day.

Cheers to you.

[NH Baritone]

That's a phenomenal post, Baritone, thanks. Compassionate, insightful and helpful. It's the sort of thing that justifies this forum needing to last forever in case some other new atheist might stumble upon it deep amongst the archives one day.

Cheers to you.

I also offer advice to the lovelorn and toward the installation of garbage disposals.

[Raven]

For those of you who were surrounded by devout and faithful believers when you made your transition to the dark side... how did it go? How long did it take you to 'fess up? What was the reaction?

I have recently came out. I came out after spending quite a bit of time in Oklahoma with my sister. It was very hard for me and my daughter to adapt there. We are not use to seeing billboards of churches, or bullitons in public schools with posters saying back to school night at the Babtist Chruch.

We was also having to adapt to my sisters recent convert to Mormon. After many attempts of my sister trying to get me to talk to the Missionaries who would come to her apt, I knew it was time I had to tell her. How did that go?? Well I started the conversation with "Sis I need to tell you how I feel on somethings."
and so I told her I don't beleive Joseph Smith was a prophet, and I said I don't beleive in her God. Well she was mad and angry. She threw everything she could in my face from me going to private schools as a child to me having a same sex realtionship. I could tell of course she was hurt and mad and so I just let her vent. After I told her how I felt she really would not talk to me or my daughter. It was not long after that me and my daughter came back to California.