Being an Atheist...is hard...:(

[crazylegsmurphy]

You know what the hardest thing about being an Atheist / Person of reason?

It's lonely.

Oh sure, I know people that think like me are out there...I mean, look at the numbers at the Reason Rally...but in day to day life, it's like trying to get photos of an elusive snow leopard. Sure, you can set up your camera and wait, and wait, and wait, but in the end you just get a SD card full of sheep photos.

Anyway, not much point other than I just wanted to kinda vent.

[humanguy]

You know what the hardest thing about being an Atheist / Person of reason?

It's lonely.

Oh sure, I know people that think like me are out there...I mean, look at the numbers at the Reason Rally...but in day to day life, it's like trying to get photos of an elusive snow leopard. Sure, you can set up your camera and wait, and wait, and wait, but in the end you just get a SD card full of sheep photos.

Anyway, not much point other than I just wanted to kinda vent.

Why not forget about being an atheist and just be a human being? Life is all around and no one gives a damn what your religious beliefs or lack of them are. If you want people in your life who all think like you, well...I don't know, it sounds pretty boring to me.

Again, life is all around, so live it!

[crazylegsmurphy]

Wouldn't that be amazing if it were just that simple?

I would give anything if the people around me didn't give a damn about my religious beliefs or lack there of. It would be amazing to have conversations with people that didn't result in them distancing themselves later on. Imagine a world where you could actually be yourself and not have to feel nervous about what others may think.

I do live my life...in fact I live most of it alone. I recently attended a lecture by Lawrence Krauss, visited the science centre, and the dinosaur museum. I did it alone because no one I know is interested in those things.

So I guess you're correct, If I forget about being who I am, and just nod and smile, I can have a whole bunch of people around me.

[humanguy]

Wouldn't that be amazing if it were just that simple?

I would give anything if the people around me didn't give a damn about my religious beliefs or lack there of. It would be amazing to have conversations with people that didn't result in them distancing themselves later on. Imagine a world where you could actually be yourself and not have to feel nervous about what others may think.

Is it really like that where you live?

I do live my life...in fact I live most of it alone. I recently attended a lecture by Lawrence Krauss, visited the science centre, and the dinosaur museum. I did it alone because no one I know is interested in those things.

Alone isn't a bad deal at all. Lonely, now that's the bad deal, and it sounds to me that you're lonely.

So I guess you're correct, If I forget about being who I am, and just nod and smile, I can have a whole bunch of people around me.

This I don't understand. No one goes around thinking about who they are. I don't. I'm the way I am, so what? The way I am dictates how I live my life, no?

[crazylegsmurphy]

Is it really like that where you live?

Well,consider for a moment what it is like for the average person to meet like minded people. Now, add on top of that a world view that offends a lot of people, a dislike for drinking, an already small social circle, and interests that are quite atypical.

It creates a situation where finding like minded people is like finding a needle in a haystack. As I mentioned above, I do many thing alone now because if I didn't I would simply do nothing but work. The problem is, that (and I'm not ashamed to admit this), I find social situations to be somewhat difficult at the best of times. So, even when I'm in a situation where there may be people I would could get to know, I'm still the odd man out. But, believe me, I have tried, and the result has mostly been poor. The problem is that the moment I start being myself and voicing my opinions, they are often so contrary to what others think, that I ostracize myself.

This I don't understand. No one goes around thinking about who they are. I don't. I'm the way I am, so what? The way I am dictates how I live my life, no?

You are who you are, and I am who I am...but I am not like they are. To be clear, I have no issue with who I am or what I believe. I also have no issue with what others believe. The problem is I can't control what others think. I live my life the best I can hoping that it will attract people who accept me for who I am. However because I don't have the ability to send out low level frequency sounds, or some kind of pheromone, the odds are not in my favour.

Think about it this way. Imagine being gay. Now, right off the bat you're limited to who will accept you, and want to be around you. If you go out looking for like minded people (or those who aren't bothered by it), it become a long, disheartening struggle to work your way though groups of people. What happens if you mention you're gay...how will people react? What if while watching Star Wars you comment on how you think Ewan McGregor is hot, and the group of people who you were getting along with five minutes before, are suddenly inching away from you both physically and mentally?

The advantage of being gay over being an Atheist (I'm guessing here), is at least there are places and ways to find other gay people. Atheists typically don't gather in places all that often. Sure I have attended Skeptics in the pub before, and I met someone, but we just weren't compatible as friends. So that's once a month I have that option, and once I've exhausted the small group that attends, I'm again left with little option.

A few weeks ago I got invited to church, and I almost went.....I struggled with it for some time before coming to my senses. I've been down that road before and I don't need to go through the pain of having a group of friends bugger off once I start to open up and be myself.

[Rhino]

Look at things in a slightly differnt perspective. Twice in my adult life I have had to reset and find a a whole new group of friends (divorce and job relocation) and I am pretty much your normal introvert. I looked for people of similar interest in my case old school pen and paper Rpg's.
Religion I find most people do not really want to talk about it. And then shy away when they find you know more about than they do. One person who I thought to be an atheist turned out not to be a vise versa for another and this was may five or six years. Enjoy life, leave the debates for the late night drunks.

[crazylegsmurphy]

Rhino,

That is kinda what has happened over the last 6 months or so. I have basically "reset" all my friends. Much of it didn't really have much to do with anything other than wanting less negativity in my life, and eliminating some toxic relationships. Like you, I have been trying to get involved with the tabletop gaming community (Warhammer / Warmachine), but I actually have to drive to a different city to avoid dealing with the group of people I have left behind.

The problem I have with theists and the like is not really in debates, it's the day to day stuff. For example, when I attend things like science talks, or museums, it is honestly horribly going with someone who thinks it's all rubbish. Getting people to go with me is hard enough, but I am at the point where going alone allows me to just learn and enjoy at my own pace without having to deal with that awkwardness of the underlying tension. Going to a talk on how the universe can come from nothing is not really all that interesting when you have to reserve your thoughts for fear that you'll offend someone and lose a friend (which has happened many times).

I guess, the real problem I have is not that people are really all that hard to find, but that I am lonely because I never feel I can be myself. There have simply been too many times when who I am, and what I believe have caused the deterioration of a friendship. I would just like to meet some people, a nice little group of friends that I can be myself around.

[Keep The Reason]

Are you in Canada? If so, whereabouts? If not, where are you?

Also, if you went to a Lawrence Krause lecture, was it close enough for you to link up with other attendees?

I was a social misfit for a long time; no friends, no comfortable in social situations. I decided be day to stop caring if others didn't like me or m views, and instead Just went out and started to converse and interact with others. I'm in Los Angeles so it's probably easier bringing an urban center, but it did work out well.

Ever consider moving? Probably not the easiest thing to do, bu I found stand living on Long Island after awhile and had to escape. First manhattan, then a few ther paces but eventually LA.

[crazylegsmurphy]

Are you in Canada? If so, whereabouts? If not, where are you?

Also, if you went to a Lawrence Krause lecture, was it close enough for you to link up with other attendees?

I was a social misfit for a long time; no friends, no comfortable in social situations. I decided be day to stop caring if others didn't like me or m views, and instead Just went out and started to converse and interact with others. I'm in Los Angeles so it's probably easier bringing an urban center, but it did work out well.

Ever consider moving? Probably not the easiest thing to do, bu I found stand living on Long Island after awhile and had to escape. First manhattan, then a few ther paces but eventually LA.

Hey KTR,

Ya, I am in Canada. About 2 hours from Calgary. It's fairly reasonable to drive in to go to meetings (such as Skeptics in the Pub), but...well the combination of not drinking, not really comfortable with trying to talk in a pub setting (loud music, awkward seating, etc), a 4 am start to my work day, and the 4 hour round trip, I often back out at the last moment despite the best intentions of going. Other than that, and the odd lecture, comic convention, and such, I really haven't found many things to do.

I have started doing as you did and stopped caring what people think, and the result was a loss of about 15 friends (you know how it goes...one or two leave and the rest follow like sheep). As I said above, most of those people weren't healthy for me anyway due to the negativity. Moving is actually kinda cool, the problem is that I have lived in England, Vancouver, Northern Alberta, Lethbridge, Calgary, and now Claresholm, and while the "fresh start" was nice, it ultimately puts me back to square one. As strange as it sounds, I'm kinda considering moving with my dad (yeah, I know, I know...living with your parents), but he recently moved to Vancouver Island and at least I can hang out with my dad for a while.

I dunno, these are all great suggestions. I guess I'm just frustrated at the what seems to be lack of opportunity. I have to give religious people credit, a weekly church is a good opportunity to meet, and maintain relationships with people. Atheists / Skeptics don't meet that often, and when they do, it usually surrounds drinking (which I'm not into). I have put posts on some meet up sites asking if anyone was interested in joining me for hikes, museums, events, etc....but because the member count is generally pretty low, they haven't really been seen by anyone.

[NH Baritone]

Sorry to hear, CLM, that you're down in the dumps and feeling rejected, dejected, suspected, neglected, and disrespected.

Members of the gay community who live small towns and rural areas often cannot find acceptance and embrace in such semi-secluded settings. This is why huge percentages of gay men and lesbians uproot themselves and move to larger cities, where they can find like-minded communities. (It is no coincidence that the only primarily gay Protestant denomination named itself the Metropolitan Community Church.)

It is similar when your theistic orientation does not fit with the prevailing culture. Although it may be inconvenient and disruptive to other parts of your life, you may find your sense of belonging is better served actually living IN (instead of semi-near) a city like Calgary, Vancouver, or (I guess) Victoria. (Personally, I wouldn't move in with parents, who would treat me as if I were 40 years younger than the calendar indicates I am.)

Also, you could try hosting a Meet-Up yourself. I still have to travel an hour to get to the closest humanist or freethought meet-ups, but they're enjoyable and offer some emotional relief. And we meet in coffeehouses or libraries, not pubs. If you're the organizer, you get to pick the venue.

(BTW, I just checked and there are already atheist meet-ups Drumheller and Red Deer, AB. Perhaps one of them is closer.)

[Tim-the-Hermit]

As far as I can see, the Deaf community seem to have a lot in common with the gay community; 'birds of a feather flock together' and that's no bad thing! That's why I feel saddened when I see homophobia in other deafies, when solidarity ought to be the prescription. But perhaps that is just down to the 'external conditioning' (?) from the same busybodies who want to 'normalise' us.

Anyway, good responses to CLM. It's why I'm not sure about 'democracy' - a majority expecting everybody else to become part of their brave new world.

[MESkeptic]

Crazylegs,

I feel your pain. Like you, I live in a rural community where I can't really let down my guard much. Even my friends sometimes suspect that if I'm not a theist, I must hate everyone and everything and secretly sneak out at lunch to sacrifice babies to Satan.

In the US, we get the added bonus of living in a bizarre, fact-free reality fabricated by uber-conservatives. If you've ever seen the original Stepford Wives, it often feels like that small, warped little town. It isn't unusual to be ridiculed for stating objective, easily-verifiable facts, because the facts contradict what "everyone knows," which usually is the bovine excrement spread by Fox News and talk radio. My country is overrun by insanity.

And I'm known for being an *optimist.*

I don't know what will work for you, but I've given up on having a lot of friends who share my interests and think like I do. Over time, I've made friends who share one interest or another, or one viewpoint or another. I also use my sense of humor a lot, accepting the role as the "odd" friend that everyone (hopefully) likes despite his quirky ideas. And, of course, I'm slowly brainwashing them to my point of view.

[crazylegsmurphy]

Sorry Guys,

This stupid forum never emails me when the thread gets replies.

In the US, we get the added bonus of living in a bizarre, fact-free reality fabricated by uber-conservatives. If you've ever seen the original Stepford Wives, it often feels like that small, warped little town. It isn't unusual to be ridiculed for stating objective, easily-verifiable facts, because the facts contradict what "everyone knows," which usually is the bovine excrement spread by Fox News and talk radio. My country is overrun by insanity.

Here in Alberta we have a lot of conservatives as well. Much of the culture revolves around the cowboy/farming community which generally holds a more conservative view. Even those that aren't "cowboys" per say have been raised fairly conservative. To put it in perspective. In the city of Calgary (population 1+ million), there are only about 300 Atheists online that I can find. Of those, only a small handful have active accounts.

I don't know what will work for you, but I've given up on having a lot of friends who share my interests and think like I do. Over time, I've made friends who share one interest or another, or one viewpoint or another. I also use my sense of humor a lot, accepting the role as the "odd" friend that everyone (hopefully) likes despite his quirky ideas. And, of course, I'm slowly brainwashing them to my point of view.

I have given up a lot of friends as well. Earlier this year I got into a discussion on my Facebook page, and while I thought it wasn't showing up in my timeline, it apparently was, and many of the people on my list distanced themselves after finding out my beliefs. Fast forward to today, and I only have 6 people left on my friends list...this includes my mom, dad, and brother.

I have no problem with a small group of friends, in fact I would prefer it, but it is SO hard to find people that are like minded. I'm not even talking about finding someone I could possibly date since for some reason many Atheists tend to be male as well.

It is similar when your theistic orientation does not fit with the prevailing culture. Although it may be inconvenient and disruptive to other parts of your life, you may find your sense of belonging is better served actually living IN (instead of semi-near) a city like Calgary, Vancouver, or (I guess) Victoria. (Personally, I wouldn't move in with parents, who would treat me as if I were 40 years younger than the calendar indicates I am.)

Also, you could try hosting a Meet-Up yourself. I still have to travel an hour to get to the closest humanist or freethought meet-ups, but they're enjoyable and offer some emotional relief. And we meet in coffeehouses or libraries, not pubs. If you're the organizer, you get to pick the venue.

(BTW, I just checked and there are already atheist meet-ups Drumheller and Red Deer, AB. Perhaps one of them is closer.)

I have actually lived in the city and I found it to be even more lonely. There is something about constantly being surrounded by people that tends to remind me of how hard it is to find people I get alone with. I live as a bit of a hermit out here in this small town, mostly sticking to myself and concentrating on my business. I travel into the one of the major cities a few times a week to play nerd games, but for the most part I don't mind being out here (I would love to move back to the coast however).

As for the meet-up, ya....I have thought about it. Drumheller and Red Deer are about a 3-5 hour drive one way for me, so that's a bit far. Calgary and Lethbridge are the closest, and I have tried to get into those communities, but as I mentioned above their members don't seem to be all that active.

On a side note, moving in with my dad wouldn't be all that bad. He's a fellow Atheist and we both enjoy many of the same hobbies. I'm sure he would treat me as his kid, but at 34 years old I have the luxury of using logic on him...or simply telling him to take a hike.