TOPIC SUGGESTION: Why is nature at odd's with Christianity

[AHappyAtheist]

First I want to say that I really like this podcast. I just got my first IPOD about a month ago and haven't been able to stop listening. I finished listening to every available episode today and after reading through the suggestions on here, I'd like to throw in my two cents.

Before I do though, Norton if you read these I gotta say man, stop fighting your logic, you know Emery's on to something.. LOL j/k no pun intended.

There were two shows about homosexuality, one about whether or not it's wrong and natural and the second was about Gay Marriage. Emery I wish you had mentioned what I'm about to mention because it would have led into some serious questioning of the Bible and traverse into more about, if God created nature he's either very sick minded or a jokester.

Now my REQUEST is that you guys do a show on Homosexuality in Nature. Below I am including two links. One of which will take you to the Wiki page about it and the other is the first part of a 6part series that gets right down to the nitty gritty.

So the question I pose is this Norton, If the "God that isn't the Anti or there is even a God" created nature, and inspired the Bible, and told us that homosexuality is a sin, why are animals Homosexual, Transsexual, Bisexual and more. WHY?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual ... in_animals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFeXwKnCUNI

I struggled with what the Bible teaches for most of my life. I'm 25 almost 26 now and Emery your story reminded me of my own story and is helping me to further find out who I am.. Thanks guys, Especially thanks for being so cool as to put opposition together they way you do and come together with such a loving bond. You guys are great and I'm continuously sharing your podcast's with friends..


~ Ryan, A Happy Atheist

[Lawrence]

First I want to say that I really like this podcast. I just got my first IPOD about a month ago and haven't been able to stop listening. I finished listening to every available episode today and after reading through the suggestions on here, I'd like to throw in my two cents.

Before I do though, Norton if you read these I gotta say man, stop fighting your logic, you know Emery's on to something.. LOL j/k no pun intended.

There were two shows about homosexuality, one about whether or not it's wrong and natural and the second was about Gay Marriage. Emery I wish you had mentioned what I'm about to mention because it would have led into some serious questioning of the Bible and traverse into more about, if God created nature he's either very sick minded or a jokester.

Now my REQUEST is that you guys do a show on Homosexuality in Nature. Below I am including two links. One of which will take you to the Wiki page about it and the other is the first part of a 6part series that gets right down to the nitty gritty.

So the question I pose is this Norton, If the "God that isn't the Anti or there is even a God" created nature, and inspired the Bible, and told us that homosexuality is a sin, why are animals Homosexual, Transsexual, Bisexual and more. WHY?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual ... in_animals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFeXwKnCUNI

I struggled with what the Bible teaches for most of my life. I'm 25 almost 26 now and Emery your story reminded me of my own story and is helping me to further find out who I am.. Thanks guys, Especially thanks for being so cool as to put opposition together they way you do and come together with such a loving bond. You guys are great and I'm continuously sharing your podcast's with friends..


~ Ryan, A Happy Atheist

Maybe you should consider making similar topic in General Discussion.

[Rian]

Welcome, Ryan! I'm glad you've enjoyed the podcasts, and am impressed that you've heard them all! Wow!

I hope you like posting here, too.

So the question I pose is this Norton, If the "God that isn't the Anti or there is even a God" created nature, and inspired the Bible, and told us that homosexuality is a sin, why are animals Homosexual, Transsexual, Bisexual and more. WHY?

Well, for one thing, I just don't see where God says that morality applies to animals

Some mother animals eat their babies - by your logic, should that be OK for humans?

Anyway, welcome again, and I like your avvy!

[Emery]

Hi Ryan, welcome. Interesting topic idea, but I think Christians could presume that animal homosexuality is a result of the fallen state of creation. Just as God originally created carnivores to be herbivores, he also created them all straight. Any gayness in the animal kingdom is therefore not his doing.

What do you think?

[mitchellmckain]

Hi Ryan, welcome. Interesting topic idea, but I think Christians could presume that animal homosexuality is a result of the fallen state of creation. Just as God originally created carnivores to be herbivores, he also created them all straight. Any gayness in the animal kingdom is therefore not his doing.

What do you think?

Yeah if you believe in that sort of thing, but that is just way too far fetched for me -- like pure science fiction and magic. For the evolutionary Christian, with design out of the picture, it is just a matter of the inherent free will in the whole process of life and God has very little to do with it -- it is just all the different forms of life exploring every possiblity available. I hardly think that God's priorities are going to be trying to enforce some code of morality on bacterium. I think His focus is more on stimulating life to help it find its highest potential and for a very long time that focus would have been all about the human race on this planet.

I read this book called "Peeps" by Scott Westerfield recently which is a really mind blowing "fictional" novel that turns the whole vampire mythology into a work of science fiction by showing just how extreme the natural world can be. This really is an amazing book because every other chapter is biology lesson about the kind parasites that can be found in nature -- and it is so wild and strange that it not only illustrates the plain truth that reality is far stranger than any fiction but that by comparison, myths like vampires really are not all that far fetched. BUT, and perhaps this is the MOST important thing to learn from this book, it can all be according to perfectly logical rational natural processes and thus appeals to magic are really kind of pointless.

For example, just to give you a taste... the "vampires" or peeps in this story are the product of a parasite and the author gives an evolutionary rational for a lot of vampire myths like problems with sunlight, mirrors and even crosses by this evolved phenomenon he calls "anthema" where the parasite has been selected to effect the mental function of humans to make them shy away from everything that the person previously loved including their own image and things of religion. This is to get them away from their previous life and the company of other humans who are likely to restrain or kill them because of their predatory behavior which spreads the parasite.

[Emery]

Mitch, do you routinely get kicked out of your Sunday School?

[AHappyAtheist]

Hi Ryan, welcome. Interesting topic idea, but I think Christians could presume that animal homosexuality is a result of the fallen state of creation. Just as God originally created carnivores to be herbivores, he also created them all straight. Any gayness in the animal kingdom is therefore not his doing.

What do you think?

I would have to agree Emery. I think they'll use anything they can to re-affirm their position.

We could go on forever debating with each other, but as a new comer in these debates, I wonder where all of this is leading us. I ask myself, once where past the issue of religion, what will be next? Then I wonder if there is something within our own evolution that causes us to fight/debate. Could it be that we'll fight till one side or the other wins? Could our desire to be right have something to do with evolving tribalism? Are we nothing more than creatures who need to realize our own desire to fight and learn to work for a common goal? This might sound repetitive, but in the end where does debating get us?

It seems to me that we need a set of rules to follow, but that we need to set those rules through the democratic process. How can this world get better if all we do is debate what's on the surface and not what's inside?

Thanks for replying Emery.. I look forward to the next show..

[AHappyAtheist]

Mitch, do you routinely get kicked out of your Sunday School?

I wonder which school he went to?