Trolls

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Re: Trolls

Postby Rian » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:34 pm

Whew, DU! You can't honor SB's request and give it up for even one post when it comes to me?

I'd love to see you say something like this (and it's not too late to do so) : "Yes, I'm sure we would disagree, but I'll go ahead and honor SB's request, too, and let it drop, and try, along with you, to back off on the insults. :flowers: "

Can you say this?
"Aurë entuluva! Auta i lómë!" ("Day shall come again! The night is passing!") -- from JRR Tolkien's The Silmarillion

Christianity is the red pill - go for it! Seek the truth, wherever it leads you.
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Re: Trolls

Postby darkumbra » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:23 am

Rian wrote:Whew, DU! You can't honor SB's request and give it up for even one post when it comes to me?

I'd love to see you say something like this (and it's not too late to do so) : "Yes, I'm sure we would disagree, but I'll go ahead and honor SB's request, too, and let it drop, and try, along with you, to back off on the insults. :flowers: "

Can you say this?


Ok... this is going to be a long post - so bear with me a little while (or not - your choice)

I'm going to examine this recent exchange step by step - more for my benefit than for yours.

1) I return to the board after a fairly long absence and run into some especially strange posters.
I believe I returned to the forum at most 2-3 days before you did.

2) In a Thread entitled TROLLS I posted a comment which you saw and reacted to.

3) Now - I don't know exactly what I said that you classified as 'insulting' since you did NOT specifically point it out AND you made other references to my postings in at least one other thread than the 'Troll' one. So... I'm going to be making some assumptions here. (As you know... I do that from time to time - I also, as best I can, IDENTIFY my assumptions and am willing to be corrected. )

Under the heading of trolls, that did indeed refer to a particular type of Christian poster, I made specific generalization... ""Frankly I think I'm beginning to 'understand' these folks.""

"these" referring back to the topic of the thread "TROLLS"

I then continued... ""Consider them as an encounter with an alien lifeform... sort of a 'first contact' scenario. A form of life, with a perspective on the world that is foreign to us, but has its own 'internal consistency'... I'm not saying it's logical, or that it is reality based in any way, shape or form - but it is consistent.""

This is the first point where I think (I don't know) you might have taken exception. Specifically 'alien lifeform'... The term 'alien' means 'different'... more specifically in the context I used it? incomprehensible

Rian... sorry - but it's a fact. *I* do *NOT* comprehend how some Christians think. I do not understand the type of logic they use, I do not understand how they can twist simple english statements into things that mean nothing relating to the original statement. I'm sure there's a logic there - I don't get it. So... they are 'alien' to me.

Artists, and Painters are ALSO alien to me. I do not know how people create a symphony, nor how they can draw an image that I can't distinguish from a photograph. How their minds work is alien to me. Non comprendo. I'm ignorant of their thought process.

So? *IF* you are insulted by *MY* ignorance? There is nothing I can do about that.

But perhaps you weren't offended by my use of the term Alien... perhaps it was the next part - very likely since it's the one you chose to parody in a follow up post which we'll get to.

Here's what might have 'set you off'...

First axiom? The Bible is truth.
2nd axiom? If anything contradicts your personal experience? re-read the first axiom.


Now, I'll admit that in its stark simplicity it's a bit stunning... BUT it's what I've seen time and time again. AND months ago (I linked to this so I won't do so again)JustJim posted that clip from a Christian Biology textbook that stated, in even more strident terms that that was EXACTLY how they would choose to teach Biology. The Bible is Truth --- no matter how much scientific evidence you have - if it contradicts the Bible... then the Bible is true and the facts are false.

Now... since you parodied this in your next post... I can only assume that THIS is what you found 'insulting'... which is bizarre since it's NOT my set of axioms... but a set of 'axioms' taken from a Christian science text!

Now NOTHING in the post I've been dissecting was personal... NO insult was made. 'Alien to me' is NOT an insult.

But can you say the same about your parody?

First axiom? Your personal opinion is truth, and you must call anyone that doesn't hold with your opinion stupid, bigoted, irrational, etc., even if they aren't; and If anything makes you a bit uncomfy because it's not a simplistic, scientifically provable truth that you are currently biased towards, be condescending and snide and insulting to make yourself feel better and hopefully drive away intelligent, kind people with different opinions that might make you think outside of your safe, sorry little small-minded box.

2nd axiom? If anything contradicts your personal experience? re-read the first axiom. Repeat ad nauseum. And it is truly nauseating - posts like these shame the good, thoughtful, open-minded atheists here.

Happy New Year! I pray that this year, you two will be bold enough to move out of your little boxes and become truly open-minded thinkers and seekers.


The personal attacks are blatant. And no... I won't respond in kind.

4) SB then requests (paraphrasing here) that we 'play nice'...

You respond with "Sounds good, so I'll just say that I don't agree with some of the elements of DU's last post and leave it at that."

And I respond "Sounds aptly convenient"

Which you interpret as a personal insult of some kind? Huh?

It IS convenient for you NOT to explain what you're disagreeing with. As I said when I started this missive - I HONESTLY do not know what you've taken exception to because you haven't explained it to me. You've hinted at it. You've parodied a set of axioms taken from a Cristian text book... but in the end I'm not certain what your beef is with my recent set of posts.

So? Where to go from here?

FYI? You might find the following of interest - then again - maybe not.

Here's my set of 'axioms' for life... one set at least.

1) A is A
2) If we discover A is ~A.... then go back to #1, your thinking is flawed somewhere.

I don't expect that many people will know how to make sense of this as I posted it - so I'll take the liberty of explaining it.

1) A is A --- means nothing more than 'The world/universe is the way it is - it contains NO contradictions'
2) If you find a contradiction... you're wrong. Somewhere in your thinking, you've made a mistake. Go back to #1 and start over.

NOW... Place THIS 'credo' AGAINST

1) The Bible is truth.
2) If anything in the world/universe contradicts the Bible? then go back to #1 (more in line with the statements from the Biology text I've been referring to)

*IF* you can see how these two credos conflict at the most fundamental level? Then you might, just might, understand me a teeny tiny bit better. You don't have to agree with ANYTHING I believe in... just recognize what drives me and why a certain type of thinking/argument is likely to push MY buttons.

DU

And finally... an aside. Perhaps worthy of its own thread.

You make a claim repeatedly about me... that I live in a little box. I don't get it. My #1 above is the ENTIRE UNIVERSE... the #1 of some Christians (see? No personal attack here) is a tiny little Bible. Which 'box' is bigger? Not just in size? But in complexity? Wonder? Detail? And yes... even in ignorance as in things to learn and explore. Comparing myself to a graduate of the schools that use that Biology book? I must adhere to the rules of the entire universe... they only have to adhere to the rules of a little book.

Just a thought
The "god experience"? I have no idea what you are talking about. This sounds like COMPLETE BULLSHIT that you are just making up. How do you define "god experience" in objective scientific terms?-Mitch - a Christian beyond compare.
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Re: Trolls

Postby spongebob » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:26 am

Well, this could continue to escalate, but I hope it just settles down. I know there are some valuable thing to discuss. And I'm sure that There will always be little things that people take offense to, whether intended or not. But I hope everyone will overlook those little things and seek a higher level of discussion.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Re: Trolls

Postby darkumbra » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:38 am

spongebob wrote:Well, this could continue to escalate, but I hope it just settles down. I know there are some valuable thing to discuss. And I'm sure that There will always be little things that people take offense to, whether intended or not. But I hope everyone will overlook those little things and seek a higher level of discussion.


SB? Did I. in your opinion. just 'escalate' this? If so? How? Because it was not my intent.
The "god experience"? I have no idea what you are talking about. This sounds like COMPLETE BULLSHIT that you are just making up. How do you define "god experience" in objective scientific terms?-Mitch - a Christian beyond compare.
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Re: Trolls

Postby spongebob » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:41 pm

It really doesn't take much, DU. Even when you try to be nice sometimes people just read things the wrong way. What's on your mind these days? You must have something interesting going on. It's been a while since I heard from you.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Re: Trolls

Postby darkumbra » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:03 pm

spongebob wrote:It really doesn't take much, DU. Even when you try to be nice sometimes people just read things the wrong way. What's on your mind these days? You must have something interesting going on. It's been a while since I heard from you.


I am actually swamped... doing my very best to buck the trend on the deepening recession and so far... where's that block of wood?... so good.

If you wish, wander over to webinars.technobility.com to see, and hear, what I'm up to.

Cheers
The "god experience"? I have no idea what you are talking about. This sounds like COMPLETE BULLSHIT that you are just making up. How do you define "god experience" in objective scientific terms?-Mitch - a Christian beyond compare.
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