The End To Which God Created the World- The Big Why?

[humanguy]

God created this all, this whole of Creation, and needed an audience for it.

God needed something?

[Rian]

Oh, I think in the same sense that Mozart needed an audience for his amazing works. It's mutually beneficial.

btw, why is this thread in this forum?

[mitchellmckain]

I would say that this is why so many Christians are arrogant SOBs, full of themselves and absolutely confident that everyone should think like they do, because after all if that is the way that their God behaves then it must the right way go.

Well I don't believe in this God at all.

What is a perfect and infinite God going to do? Is their anything He can add to Himself? No. He has no need for anything let alone something so superficial as glory. No, I think the Christians imagining that they can add to the glory of God are completely tripping. God is perfect and therefore there is absolutely no reason do anything for Himself. There is nothing He can do for Himself. Therefore the logic is inevitable that this perfect God will only do things completely selflessly for others. It only logical that His motivation must be to give of His infinite abundance to another and therefore what He will do is to truly create something other than Himself in order to give - and give Himself utterly and without reservation.

Now I ask you to look at Jesus, who said that when you see Him you see the Father. And so I ask you to look at Jesus and tell me what you see. Do you see the this God described in the OP that only does things so that He can look good and make sure that everyone knows it? Or do you see the God that gives absolutely everything of Himself to others? Do you see the mighty king clothed in soft rainment, or do you see the servant washing peoples feet? They tried to make Him king and He drove them away with hard words, instead to suffer our condemnation and mockery and die innocent of all save that He told the truth.

Now I do think that the OP is quite right to say that we should indeed look to Him for in Him we will find all the best of everything. But one of those things is the very best of good character and that is the character that serves and lives for others.

But there is another being who would have our devotion and he will make promises and threats to get it. All he wants is for us to bow down to him - we know that because He asked this very thing in the temptations of Jesus. Yes we most definitely KNOW that THIS being is VERY much interested in his own glory. He is not a perfect being so it make sense for him to want things for himself. He is, in fact, quite hollow and to fill the void within he would indeed call as many of us as he can to be with him.

[Rian]

I agree that this (God somehow needing the approval and admiration of people) is a common misconception about the God/glory thing - I've thought about this one a lot, and there's a lot of interesting things about it, none of which are God-as-egomaniac.

[humanguy]

It only logical that His motivation must be to give of His infinite abundance to another and therefore what He will do is to truly create something other than Himself in order to give - and give Himself utterly and without reservation.

Where does he do all this?

[mitchellmckain]

It only logical that His motivation must be to give of His infinite abundance to another and therefore what He will do is to truly create something other than Himself in order to give - and give Himself utterly and without reservation.

Where does he do all this?

Often the child, blinded by his "I want it now" desires, does not see his parent do that sort of thing until he grows up a bit.

[humanguy]

It only logical that His motivation must be to give of His infinite abundance to another and therefore what He will do is to truly create something other than Himself in order to give - and give Himself utterly and without reservation.

Where does he do all this?

Often the child, blinded by his "I want it now" desires, does not see his parent do that sort of thing until he grows up a bit.

I can't argue with that but then I've never had children. But we're not discussing parenting here.
No, seriously, where does God "give - and give Himself utterly and without reservation?" Where, and to whom?

[mitchellmckain]

Often the child, blinded by his "I want it now" desires, does not see his parent do that sort of thing until he grows up a bit.

I can't argue with that but then I've never had children. But we're not discussing parenting here.
No, seriously, where does God "give - and give Himself utterly and without reservation?" Where, and to whom?

Everything a child has comes from his parent but is typical human childish thinking that takes everything he has for granted and says to the parent, you don't give me anything!

[humanguy]

Often the child, blinded by his "I want it now" desires, does not see his parent do that sort of thing until he grows up a bit.

I can't argue with that but then I've never had children. But we're not discussing parenting here.
No, seriously, where does God "give - and give Himself utterly and without reservation?" Where, and to whom?

Everything a child has comes from his parent but is typical human childish thinking that takes everything he has for granted and says to the parent, you don't give me anything!

The child...the parent...what in the Sam Hill does this have to do with the topic at issue? Stop equivocating and say something, Mitch.
Where does God give - and give Himself utterly and without reservation? Where,when and to whom?

[mitchellmckain]

Often the child, blinded by his "I want it now" desires, does not see his parent do that sort of thing until he grows up a bit.

I can't argue with that but then I've never had children. But we're not discussing parenting here.
No, seriously, where does God "give - and give Himself utterly and without reservation?" Where, and to whom?

Everything a child has comes from his parent but is typical human childish thinking that takes everything he has for granted and says to the parent, you don't give me anything!

The child...the parent...what in the Sam Hill does this have to do with the topic at issue? Stop equivocating and say something, Mitch.
Where does God give - and give Himself utterly and without reservation? Where,when and to whom?

God is the parent and we are the children. Everything we have is from God. The universe is 13.7 billion years old and the earth about 5 billion years old. How can what any human parent gives to his children compare to this.

[humanguy]

God is the parent and we are the children. Everything we have is from God. The universe is 13.7 billion years old and the earth about 5 billion years old. How can what any human parent gives to his children compare to this.

I understand that the generally accepted age of the universe is around 13.7 billion years, but how that in any bloody way could lead anyone to come up with "God is the parent and we are the children. Everything we have is from God" is well beyond me.
My car is almost 10 years old. The pigeons who shit on it make sure that my mail is delivered every day.

[whoosanightowl]

humanguy wrote:

My car is almost 10 years old. The pigeons who shit on it make sure that my mail is delivered every day.

LOL, now THAT makes a lot of sense! Thanks for explaining how the mail gets delivered daily, I'll sleep much better tonight.

[mitchellmckain]

You asked

Where does God give - and give Himself utterly and without reservation? Where,when and to whom?[/

I answered

God is the parent and we are the children. Everything we have is from God. The universe is 13.7 billion years old and the earth about 5 billion years old. How can what any human parent gives to his children compare to this.

Now what in the world does your reply have to do with your question or my answer? Nothing.

I understand that the generally accepted age of the universe is around 13.7 billion years, but how that in any bloody way could lead anyone to come up with "God is the parent and we are the children.

In no way whatsoever. Why should it? You did not ask any question about this. But then it is becoming clear that you do not even want an answer to the questions which you do ask. You only ask them because like the foolish creationists you hope that nobody can answer them, and participate in the utterly irratonal thinking that unanswered questions will prove your case.

Everything we have is from God" is well beyond me.

So apparently is a rational discussion.

My car is almost 10 years old. The pigeons who shit on it make sure that my mail is delivered every day.

Yes this is indeed an excellent example of your reasoning capabilities.

[humanguy]

You asked

Where does God give - and give Himself utterly and without reservation? Where,when and to whom?[/

I answered

God is the parent and we are the children. Everything we have is from God. The universe is 13.7 billion years old and the earth about 5 billion years old. How can what any human parent gives to his children compare to this.

Now what in the world does your reply have to do with your question or my answer? Nothing.

I understand that the generally accepted age of the universe is around 13.7 billion years, but how that in any bloody way could lead anyone to come up with "God is the parent and we are the children.

In no way whatsoever. Why should it? You did not ask any question about this. But then it is becoming clear that you do not even want an answer to the questions which you do ask. You only ask them because like the foolish creationists you hope that nobody can answer them, and participate in the utterly irratonal thinking that unanswered questions will prove your case.

Everything we have is from God" is well beyond me.

So apparently is a rational discussion.

Well, Mitch, if this: "God is the parent and we are the children. Everything we have is from God. The universe is 13.7 billion years old and the earth about 5 billion years old. How can what any human parent gives to his children compare to this" is your idea of a rational statement then I really have to wonder how many "rational discussions" you've participated in lately.