ChristianHeretic wrote:mitchellmckain wrote:Only because of your equivocation of authority with power. I was refering to authority that every person has with regard to His own will. Jesus like everyone He had all the authority to speak for Himself about His own choices, but no he had no powers that other human beings did not have. But since He was God, His authority to speak for Himself about His own choices was the authority of God to speak for Himself about the choices of God.
Ok, just so I understand your point, are you saying Jesus had all of the authority to speak for the triune one God because He was part of this triune God yet did not have the power or wisdom of this triune one God other than what He solicited from another part of this triune God, who He calls His God and Father? I agree with you, He obviously had the authority to speak for "Himself," but who was Himself? Himself as a human that has to submit to the wisdom and power of another, or Himself as God that has no need to "appeal to some higher power" as you put it? Who did He have the authority of and where did He get that authority? Was it "given to him" or did he have it already because "God does things from His own ability and knowledge of how to do things NOT by appealing to something else to do it for Him."?
Jesus subjected himself to humanity and all the laws of this world, but He had all the authority to speak for God because He was God. But a big part of this was the fact that He in every way acted as He said a human being should act in one accord with God the Father. Rather than acting on his own limited perspective as a human being, He always went to the Father first. Thus Jesus said, "I can do nothing on my own authority, as I hear, I judge, and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of Him who sent me." While subjected to the limitations of humanity, He further subjected Himself to the dictates of the Father, and it is because of this that He did speak with the authority of God. Indeed any human being can theoretically do the same, for if we are in complete obedience to God then the authority of God is naturally behind it. In practice we know that no fallen human being is even close to 100% obedient to God and in fact the authority of God is not behind most of the things he does.
ChristianHeretic wrote:mitchellmckain wrote:But yes, the incarnate Jesus certainly did appeal to the higher power and greater knowledge of the Father, because He had left all that power and knowledge behind Him when He subjected Himself to the laws of this world and became a helpless human infant.
Ok, so this will help with future discussions so I appropriately understand your theology. I have a few questions:
1. Do you believe Jesus knew He was "God" while on earth?
That is an interesting question. I do not know an absolute answer to it. I am not even sure all of what that may entail. Human awareness is by nature finite and limited and so it is natural to think that there may be some limitations of Jesus awareness in this regard. All I can do is quote the things He said that did indicate that He did have a significant portion of such an awareness, such as John 14:9-11.
ChristianHeretic wrote:2. Do you disagree with Augustin and others within orthodoxy that there were actually actions that He performed under His own power "as God" while on earth?
Huh? He WAS God. All his actions were actons that He performed under His own power as God. BUT all of them were ALSO within the limitations of the power and knowledge of a human being.
ChristianHeretic wrote:3. Without the power and knowledge of the one true God while on earth, are you still comfortable saying He was "equal" to God while here?
Power and knowledge are not the measure of worth -- NOT according to God!