What I like about the Trinitarian view.

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Re: What I like about the Trinitarian view.

Postby mitchellmckain » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:51 am

StillSearching wrote:
mitchellmckain wrote:The doctrine of the Trinity is a view of God which is NOT created in our own image and yet is not less than a person but more.


Not created in our own image, but created by us, right? Or do you disagree with that?

Yes the doctrine is a creation of human reason based on scripture but my point was that this was a view of God that is not simply created in our own image and that seems to be what you and Spong are doing when insisting on a God that is more like us.

StillSearching wrote:Yep, no argument there. The Bible seems to describe the three in a way that identifies them as distinct (and yet as one). I see Spong's answer as nothing more than another way of expressing that concept, though it replaces the idea of three distinct "persons" with the idea of one "person" experienced in three different ways - kind of like looking at a married doctor who has two kids as "doctor", "husband", and "father". Three very distinct "persons" depending upon how one is experiencing that "person" but nonetheless the same person.

Yes but that IS what mike previously referred to as modalism (one person in three different modes or roles), incorrectly applying it to me out of his own poor understanding of the Trinity and term "modalism". Modalism is rejected by Christianity because it requires dismissing a few scriptures merely to satisfy some arbitrary aesthetic and that just doesn't look like a very good reason. I am talking about scriptures that assert that Jesus and the Father have always existed as distinct persons regardless of whether we experience them or not.

StillSearching wrote:I guess for me, Spong's way of explaining the Trinity is more understandable than the traditional Christian view which you and Mike seem to be describing.

Modalism is constantly resurfacing in one form or another precisely for that reason, whenever someone makes some amateurish analogy to explain the Trinity.

StillSearching wrote: The whole "God's just weird like that and our puny human brains can't comprehend it" line just doesn't cut it for me

But the fact is that quantum physics shows us that reality is like that (i.e. does defy the expectation of our common sense) and taking the Bible seriously enough in order to accept something that is equally jarring to our expectations goes a long way towards making Christianity real also.
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Re: What I like about the Trinitarian view.

Postby mikedsjr » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:11 am

SS, There are wrong answers and you did give an argument against the Traditional view of Trinity by quoting Spong. If you would like me to continue with verses to demonstrate the Trinity and see if you follow, then i will, one post at a time. The verses are clear. The doctrine is formulated by more verses than i'll even give you, but what i present is sufficient.

What i have learned is the church is doing a poor job answering traditional topics. And the topic of the Trinity is not going to be understood by metaphorical examples. None work. They all fall. I know of one possible example that works, but don't use it because a very small minority would understand it.
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Re: What I like about the Trinitarian view.

Postby StillSearching » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:17 am

OK, I read up a bit on modalism, or Sabellianism as it is also called and I understand the distinction you are both making.

So hit me with it. Show me the scriptures that demonstrate Trinitarianism over Sabellianism.
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Re: What I like about the Trinitarian view.

Postby mitchellmckain » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:34 am

StillSearching wrote:OK, I read up a bit on modalism, or Sabellianism as it is also called and I understand the distinction you are both making.

So hit me with it. Show me the scriptures that demonstrate Trinitarianism over Sabellianism.


Remember that I completely grant that the Trinitarian doctrine is not said anywhere in scripture. But there are pieces which just don't fit simpler descriptions of God. Scripture says Jesus was there in the beginning taking part in creation but it also says that Jesus is NOT the Father but has a subservient relationship with the Father. It says that Jesus is God but took the form of a man to dwell among us. Thus simpler descriptions of God like modalism require not taking some of these very seriously and discounting what they say. In was in order not to do such thing that human reason pieced together the doctrine of the Trinity.

John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through Him and without Him was not anything that was made.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.

John 5:19 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you the Son can do nothing of His own accord, but only what He sees the Father doing; for whatever He does that the Son does likewise. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all that He Himself is doing.

John 6:38-40 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me; and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 3:16-17 And when Jesus was baptized, He went immediately up from the water, and behold the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and alighting on Him; and lo, a voice from heaven saying, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."

Collosians 1:15-17 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on the earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities -- all things were created through and for Him. He is before all things and in Him all tings hold together. He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything He might be pre-eminent. For in Him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross.

Philippians 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which you have in Christ Jesus, who though He was in the form of God did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.
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Re: What I like about the Trinitarian view.

Postby mitchellmckain » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:56 pm

Since the doctrine of the Trinity was raised in the other thread I decided to bump this thread of mine.
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