Genesis 19:30-38

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Genesis 19:30-38

Postby fauxaviator » Sun May 24, 2015 12:37 am

I would like to remind the few followers of Christ on this forum of what you already pre-suppose-- not every story written in the Bible is sanctioned by God. Point of reference, we witness King David having one of his soldiers killed for the purpose of sleeping with the man’s wife. I do not see any scripture in any part of the Bible where God rejoiced in this act of barbarism. Just like we are unable to find a shred of evidence where God is complicit in the act of incest brought on by Lot’s two desperate daughters in Genesis chapter 19. In fact, incest later becomes punishable by death according to Levitical law (Lev. 20:12).

So why do atheists time and time again continue to come back to this scripture (Gen 19:30-38) to twist its meaning and take it out of context? I would have to surmise that the vulnerability of the subjects in the story make for easy targets. After all, you have Lot starting out in the story as a great man of faith very quickly falling into legalism, fear and ultimately, unimaginable sin. Add to that his desperate; disillusioned (and possibly delusional) daughters are brought into a story of incest and you have a drama more suited for an R-rated movie than that of a story God would tell in scripture.

But if you look more objectively at this passage than any atheist ever will, you’ll find that God is merely using these horrific stories as examples of what not to do. I thank Him every day for offering up the truth that no one is infallible. We all need Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior. Just as Lot did. Just as David did. Just as Samson did. The story depicted in this great chapter of Genesis proves that we are blessed to be living on this side of Pentecost, receiving not only justification through our Lord Jesus Christ, but sanctification through the Holy Spirit.

Finally, I would be remiss if I didn’t mention 2 Peter 2:6-9 where Peter proclaims Lot to be a “righteous man.” Atheists will point out that since 1) Lot gave up his virgin daughters to be defiled, and 2) later on fathered their children, there is no way he could be anything more than scum, much less “righteous.” However, one of the great fallacies that most non-believers subscribe to is the notion that, after we are saved, God waves a magic wand and suddenly we are supposed to be perfect. Sometimes I wish that were the case, but we who are actually saved realize that isn’t the way it works. Plainly put, godly people are still capable of doing bad things.

The point is, don’t let non-believers steer you away from what you already know:

1. we are all sinners
2. we all need Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior
3. the old testament was gifted to us followers of Christ for several reasons:

a. to show us good examples
b. to show us bad examples
c. help us appreciate the Savior people of the old testament longed for
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Re: Genesis 19:30-38

Postby Chapabel » Sun May 24, 2015 4:55 am

You are correct. The Bible is brutally honest in its teachings. This is another indication it was written by God and not by man. If men wrote the Bible, they would have omitted stories that placed national heros in a bad light. Atheists simply grab hold of any piece of scripture and try to twist it the same way their father does. They can't help doing this because it is their nature.

I am thankful that the Father has given us His Spirit to properly discern Scripture. It is such a blessing to read His word and uncover those golden nuggets that speak directly to our hearts.
To be right with God has often meant to be in trouble with men. -- A.W. Tozer
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Re: Genesis 19:30-38

Postby mitchellmckain » Sun May 24, 2015 2:10 pm

Mostly this is correct. In other cases, God simply reaches people where they are at according how human society works at the time, asking for reforms to make incremental improvements. When you see the lofty no-compromise teachings of Jesus this can be hard to comprehend. But that was the right time for that message. We did need to understand that God's standard of righteousness was miles higher than our own. Jesus needed to put things in perspective, so we could see how wrong the Pharisees were in thinking they were so much better than other people.

But a lot of the time that is exactly what atheists are doing also. Putting things in perspective. That the Bible is NOT a crystal clear perfect manual for righteous behavior that fundie xtians claim is demonstrated by the fact that a certain portion of the USA used the Bible to justify the resurrection of slavery long after those in Europe had banned the practice because of the conflict with Christianity. No the problem isn't really the Bible but the fact that people can use the Bible in that way -- demonstrating that just claiming to follow the Bible is not equal to righteousness. Paul explains this in Romans 2:12-24, that having the law is NOT righteousness, but that it is what you actually do that matters. What we see so often in the world is people using religion to justify horrible things and that includes people who call themselves xtian too. So when religious people get on their high horse and start judging everyone else that is EXACTLY the time that others need to put things in perspective for them.

Is it only the religious who do this? Of course not. The atheists do it too. They also get on their high horse and act the hypocrite. Even according to the things they value most like logical coherence and consistency with the objective evidence, they do their share of twisting and bending. Then it is time for us to put things in perspective for them also.
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Re: Genesis 19:30-38

Postby Og3 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:57 am

The Bible writers made some assumptions: Namely, that you knew the law and most of the history involved. If they said that man X did action Y to man Z, they expected you to know the moral background of the action, and to understand that it was good, evil, or neither. David threatens to slaughter Nabal. Would that be a good or evil act? Abigail wisely stops him. Is that a Good or evil act?

We should not draw from that example that we should threaten our neighbors, no matter how ungrateful they are.

In another example, Jesus commends an unjust steward for the wisdom of his actions, even though the actions themselves are dishonest. Is he telling us to steal from our employers? No, he is telling us to think ahead and to benefit others, because this will, in turn, benefit us. You are expected to know that the steward acted dishonestly, and you are expected to recognize that because of his wisdom, the master forgave the theft along with whatever initially inspired him to fire the steward. &c.
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