6 major teachings from Gods son.

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6 major teachings from Gods son.

Postby kjw47 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:33 pm

1) Matt 6:33---- Therefore, keep on seeking-FIRST- the kingdom and his( Jehovah) righteousness, and all these other things will be added.( sustenance, covering, spirituality)
2)Matt 5:5--- Blessed are the meek for they( great multitude) will inherit the EARTH.
3) Lords prayer--- Hallowed be thy( Father) name( Jehovah)---last line--The KINDOM, POWER, and GLORY all belong to the Father.
4)Jesus and his real teachers, teach--Jesus has a God like we do-his Father---( Jesus)John 20:17, Rev 3:12--(Paul) 2Cor 1:3, 1Cor 8:6, 1Cor 15:24-28---(Peter) 1Peter 1:3---(John) Rev 1:6-- all 100% in agreement--the #1 teaching in the NT.
5)John 17:1-6,26---- Here Jesus clearly teaches---The one who sent him( Father) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD-- and one must take in knowledge( know) of him and of Jesus to get eternal life--Verse 6=Jehovah--26= Jehovah.
6) John 4:22-24--- The hour is coming and the hour is now that the true worshippers will worship the FATHER in spirit and truth. For its the Father who is searching for suchlike ones to worship him in spirit and truth.


Its easy to see which teachers are Jesus' appointed, anointed teachers, by learning and applying what Jesus actually taught.
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Re: 6 major teachings from Gods son.

Postby Moonwood the Hare » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:45 am

kjw47 wrote:1) Matt 6:33---- Therefore, keep on seeking-FIRST- the kingdom and his( Jehovah) righteousness, and all these other things will be added.( sustenance, covering, spirituality)

No quarrel here but I suspect an agenda.
2)Matt 5:5--- Blessed are the meek for they( great multitude) will inherit the EARTH.

Strictly it's land not earth, there is no idea of inheritting the planet which is how this could be understood today. The land in this context is an eschatological symbol derived from the renewed Canaan.
3) Lords prayer--- Hallowed be thy( Father) name( Jehovah)---last line--The KINDOM, POWER, and GLORY all belong to the Father.

This phrase is not found in scripture but derives from the liturgy of the Church. Do you see Jesus teaching being continued in the liturgy of the Church.
4)Jesus and his real teachers, teach--Jesus has a God like we do-his Father---( Jesus)John 20:17, Rev 3:12--(Paul) 2Cor 1:3, 1Cor 8:6, 1Cor 15:24-28---(Peter) 1Peter 1:3---(John) Rev 1:6-- all 100% in agreement--the #1 teaching in the NT.

These passages do not say anyone has a god or has God. God is not a possession.
5)John 17:1-6,26---- Here Jesus clearly teaches---The one who sent him( Father) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD-- and one must take in knowledge( know) of him and of Jesus to get eternal life--Verse 6=Jehovah--26= Jehovah.

Normally, that is most of the time, the word God in scripture does refer to the Father but there are times when it also refers to the Son, to Jesus.
6) John 4:22-24--- The hour is coming and the hour is now that the true worshippers will worship the FATHER in spirit and truth. For its the Father who is searching for suchlike ones to worship him in spirit and truth.

Yes the gospel is very much a Father movement, the son brings us to the Father.

The problem I see here is that you are trying to interpret the Bible out of the context of the historic Church and when you do that because the Bible is the book of the Church you just cannot help going astray.
Its easy to see which teachers are Jesus' appointed, anointed teachers, by learning and applying what Jesus actually taught.

It woukld seem to me to be those who stand in the line of the Church's historic teaching.To set scripture and Church against each other is foolish.
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Re: 6 major teachings from Gods son.

Postby kjw47 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:52 pm

Moonwood the Hare wrote:
kjw47 wrote:1) Matt 6:33---- Therefore, keep on seeking-FIRST- the kingdom and his( Jehovah) righteousness, and all these other things will be added.( sustenance, covering, spirituality)

No quarrel here but I suspect an agenda.
2)Matt 5:5--- Blessed are the meek for they( great multitude) will inherit the EARTH.

Strictly it's land not earth, there is no idea of inheritting the planet which is how this could be understood today. The land in this context is an eschatological symbol derived from the renewed Canaan.
3) Lords prayer--- Hallowed be thy( Father) name( Jehovah)---last line--The KINDOM, POWER, and GLORY all belong to the Father.

This phrase is not found in scripture but derives from the liturgy of the Church. Do you see Jesus teaching being continued in the liturgy of the Church.
4)Jesus and his real teachers, teach--Jesus has a God like we do-his Father---( Jesus)John 20:17, Rev 3:12--(Paul) 2Cor 1:3, 1Cor 8:6, 1Cor 15:24-28---(Peter) 1Peter 1:3---(John) Rev 1:6-- all 100% in agreement--the #1 teaching in the NT.

These passages do not say anyone has a god or has God. God is not a possession.
5)John 17:1-6,26---- Here Jesus clearly teaches---The one who sent him( Father) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD-- and one must take in knowledge( know) of him and of Jesus to get eternal life--Verse 6=Jehovah--26= Jehovah.

Normally, that is most of the time, the word God in scripture does refer to the Father but there are times when it also refers to the Son, to Jesus.
6) John 4:22-24--- The hour is coming and the hour is now that the true worshippers will worship the FATHER in spirit and truth. For its the Father who is searching for suchlike ones to worship him in spirit and truth.

Yes the gospel is very much a Father movement, the son brings us to the Father.

The problem I see here is that you are trying to interpret the Bible out of the context of the historic Church and when you do that because the Bible is the book of the Church you just cannot help going astray.
Its easy to see which teachers are Jesus' appointed, anointed teachers, by learning and applying what Jesus actually taught.

It woukld seem to me to be those who stand in the line of the Church's historic teaching.To set scripture and Church against each other is foolish.



Only in these last days --truth became abundant-Daniel 12:4---- up until these last days--this existed-2Thess 2:3---and turned into- Mark 3:24-26
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Re: 6 major teachings from Gods son.

Postby mitchellmckain » Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:58 pm

Picking out one of the Beattitudes and naming that one of the "6 major teachings" of Jesus is a rather bizarre thing to do -- a supreme example of cherry picking what you like.

For something to logically qualify as a "major teaching" of Jesus you would look for something repeated often, a theme running through many things he said, or at least something that connects to and supports many of his teachings. Also when you are looking for something that expresses such a thing well then you want something more clear and precise rather than something so vague it can be interpreted in any number of ways.

For example, humility is indeed a consistent theme in Jesus' teachings. We find it in Matthew 23:1-12 "He who is greatest among you shall be your servant", Luke 18:9-14 comparing the Pharisee and the taxcollector, Such is indeed the most reasonable understanding of the word "meek" in the Beattitude, but both Matthew 23 and Luke 18 say it much more clearly.
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Re: 6 major teachings from Gods son.

Postby Moonwood the Hare » Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:50 pm

kjw47 wrote:Only in these last days --truth became abundant-Daniel 12:4---- up until these last days--this existed-2Thess 2:3---and turned into- Mark 3:24-26

I can't prove this of course but I think you will find the last days in question are the last days of Israel, essentially the period from the time of Jesus to the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70.
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Re: 6 major teachings from Gods son.

Postby kjw47 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:38 pm

Moonwood the Hare wrote:
kjw47 wrote:Only in these last days --truth became abundant-Daniel 12:4---- up until these last days--this existed-2Thess 2:3---and turned into- Mark 3:24-26

I can't prove this of course but I think you will find the last days in question are the last days of Israel, essentially the period from the time of Jesus to the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70.


The last days are now--they basically started early last century--the conclusion of the war in heaven( first ride white horse)rev 6 see he received his crown)-- this began the presence-- Matt 24:37--1Cor 15:23--2Peter 3:4)
satan and his angels cast to the earth--he came as a devouring lion, angry, knowing his time is short.
Jesus sat on his throne--Gods kingdom rule over heaven with 0 satan influence( no longer allowed back in to heaven)
satan filled mens hearts with hatred all over the earth--millions slaughtered--after ww1--millions upon millions died from starvation, diseases, etc--the other 3 riders rode. The false religious leaders supported the slaughter.
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Re: 6 major teachings from Gods son.

Postby Moonwood the Hare » Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:01 am

kjw47 wrote:The last days are now--they basically started early last century--the conclusion of the war in heaven( first ride white horse)rev 6 see he received his crown)-- this began the presence-- Matt 24:37--1Cor 15:23--2Peter 3:4)

I take you are talking about 1914. It's a tough one to argue for since we are now into at least the third revision of the significance of that date for bible scolars/Jehovah's Witnesses. Do you know the bible scholars were using the slogan 'Millions now living will never die' back in the 1920s?
satan and his angels cast to the earth--he came as a devouring lion, angry, knowing his time is short.

Note the present tense here 'his time is short'
Jesus sat on his throne--Gods kingdom rule over heaven with 0 satan influence( no longer allowed back in to heaven)
satan filled mens hearts with hatred all over the earth--millions slaughtered--after ww1--millions upon millions died from starvation, diseases, etc--the other 3 riders rode. The false religious leaders supported the slaughter.

One of the best kept secrets of the Bible Scholars/Jehovah's Witnesses is that before the outbreak of WW2 the leadership of the movement in the US had tried to do a deal with the Nazi's in Germany pointing that they too were opposed to Judaism; it was only afte this failed that they instructed their members in occupied Europe to resist. None of this takes away from the heroism of individual Bible Scholars but they were not the only Christians to resist the Nazis and the record of the movement is not as pure as its official hiostories imply. In any case finding the events of the apocalypse in one owns time has been a preoccupation throughout Christian history and this is likely to continue as long as people ignore the quite specific time limits set int he New Testament - 'soon' 'this generation' etc.
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Re: 6 major teachings from Gods son.

Postby Aaron » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:49 am

Moonwood the Hare wrote:I can't prove this of course but I think you will find the last days in question are the last days of Israel, essentially the period from the time of Jesus to the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70.

What is this view called? I'd like to read more about it.
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Re: 6 major teachings from Gods son.

Postby Moonwood the Hare » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:10 am

Aaron wrote:
Moonwood the Hare wrote:I can't prove this of course but I think you will find the last days in question are the last days of Israel, essentially the period from the time of Jesus to the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70.

What is this view called? I'd like to read more about it.

preterist. Check out this http://www.amazon.com/The-Last-Days-according-Jesus/dp/080106340X
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Re: 6 major teachings from Gods son.

Postby mitchellmckain » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:12 am

Aaron wrote:
Moonwood the Hare wrote:I can't prove this of course but I think you will find the last days in question are the last days of Israel, essentially the period from the time of Jesus to the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70.

What is this view called? I'd like to read more about it.


Preterism

From the Wikipedia article on Christian eschatology:

Wikipedia wrote:Preterism
Preterism (from the Latin praeteritus, meaning "gone by") is an approach which sees prophecy as chiefly being fulfilled in the past, especially (in the case of the Book of Revelation) during the first century.[3] Prophecies in general, therefore, have already been fulfilled. In particular, many Preterists (whether they be Full Preterists or Partial Preterists) view The Book of Revelation as a text employing symbols in its communication of prophecy to the Early Church regarding the actors and events involved during the destruction of Jerusalem in the year 70 AD. Other Preterists consider the Book of Revelation to be a symbolic prophetic presentation of the struggle of Christianity to survive the persecutions of the Roman Empire. There are two major views within Preterism, that of Partial preterism (that many of the Bible's prophecies were fulfilled during the life and time of Jesus and the Early Church) and Full preterism, (that all of the Bible's prophecies were fulfilled during the life and time of Jesus and the Early Church). Preterist beliefs usually have a close association with Amillennialism, the belief that the Millennial reign of Christ began during the establishment of the Early Church. Preterists usually consider events such as the Great Tribulation as having occurred during the siege and destruction of Jerusalem from 66-70. Early Preterist theologians included Eusebius[4] and John Chrysostom.[5]


Myself? Well as I have said before, mostly I am just not interested in eschatology. It is not an area of Christian theology that I find to be very helpful in the living of our lives.
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Re: 6 major teachings from Gods son.

Postby Aaron » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:46 am

Moonwood the Hare wrote:preterist. Check out this http://www.amazon.com/The-Last-Days-according-Jesus/dp/080106340X

Thanks, just picked up a used copy, never've read RC Sproul before.
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Re: 6 major teachings from Gods son.

Postby Aaron » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:53 am

mitchellmckain wrote:Myself? Well as I have said before, mostly I am just not interested in eschatology. It is not an area of Christian theology that I find to be very helpful in the living of our lives.

Yeah, I think it can be distracting for some people. But I've found it to be very helpful for me to try and keep this life in a proper eternal context, which I think is incredibly helpful for living now.
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Re: 6 major teachings from Gods son.

Postby Moonwood the Hare » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:25 am

Aaron wrote:
Moonwood the Hare wrote:preterist. Check out this http://www.amazon.com/The-Last-Days-according-Jesus/dp/080106340X

Thanks, just picked up a used copy, never've read RC Sproul before.

He's quite a strong Calvinist and some of the most influential preterists in recent years have been full on reconstructionists. But you will also find some aspects of this view in say N T Wright. I know what Mitch means about it not being a very immediate area of theology and there is no good way of settling these differences of view.
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Re: 6 major teachings from Gods son.

Postby Aaron » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:35 am

Moonwood the Hare wrote: and there is no good way of settling these differences of view.

Except the passage of time. :-)
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Re: 6 major teachings from Gods son.

Postby Moonwood the Hare » Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:51 pm

Aaron wrote:
Moonwood the Hare wrote: and there is no good way of settling these differences of view.

Except the passage of time. :-)

You'd think that but it never happens. There are several really good books on the history of Christian eschatology and it is not difficult to spot all the mistaken predictions especially from William Miller onwards but you know what happens with the Jehovah's Witnesses amost exactly parallels what happened with Miller's followers 50 years or so earlier. And it all happens again with the dispensationalists. No one learns.
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