The work Jesus began

Where Christians can talk among themselves, and about those Godless atheists.

Re: The work Jesus began

Postby cleve » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:45 am

kjw47 wrote:
cleve wrote:"Spiritual Israel" and "trinity god" are man's teachings. Those labels are not used in scripture; so I don't use them. I don't like the "trinity god" doctrine very well because it seems bent on diffusing what is attributed to the One God - who is in all of His creation.



Matt 23:37-39-- Israels religion is cut off of being Gods chosen--see verse 39--for over 1900 years they have outright refused. Spiritual Israel is now Gods chosen. That includes the gentiles as well. The term doesn't need to be present in the bible. The facts of what the bible teaches makes it a reality. Israel will NEVER do verse 39.


"Paul had two ministries. Acts 26:16. A comparison of his writings from these ministries will show that the first relates to Israel, while the second relates to a time when Israel is Lo-ammi. To Paul was revealed the Secret which was hidden away from ages and generations. Colossians 1:25, Ephesians 3:9. The present age in which Israel is Lo-ammi is the age of the Secret or the dispensation of the grace of God, and it is this age which will close to usher in the final part of Daniel’s vision. Then Israel will be God’s people again and all His promises to and for them will be fulfilled,

“for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.” "
Romans 11:29
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Re: The work Jesus began

Postby kjw47 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:58 am

cleve wrote:
kjw47 wrote:
cleve wrote:"Spiritual Israel" and "trinity god" are man's teachings. Those labels are not used in scripture; so I don't use them. I don't like the "trinity god" doctrine very well because it seems bent on diffusing what is attributed to the One God - who is in all of His creation.



Matt 23:37-39-- Israels religion is cut off of being Gods chosen--see verse 39--for over 1900 years they have outright refused. Spiritual Israel is now Gods chosen. That includes the gentiles as well. The term doesn't need to be present in the bible. The facts of what the bible teaches makes it a reality. Israel will NEVER do verse 39.


"Paul had two ministries. Acts 26:16. A comparison of his writings from these ministries will show that the first relates to Israel, while the second relates to a time when Israel is Lo-ammi. To Paul was revealed the Secret which was hidden away from ages and generations. Colossians 1:25, Ephesians 3:9. The present age in which Israel is Lo-ammi is the age of the Secret or the dispensation of the grace of God, and it is this age which will close to usher in the final part of Daniel’s vision. Then Israel will be God’s people again and all His promises to and for them will be fulfilled,

“for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.” "
Romans 11:29



It will never happen. They will never do verse 39.
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Re: The work Jesus began

Postby cleve » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:07 pm

cleve wrote:
kjw47 wrote:
cleve wrote:"Spiritual Israel" and "trinity god" are man's teachings. Those labels are not used in scripture; so I don't use them. I don't like the "trinity god" doctrine very well because it seems bent on diffusing what is attributed to the One God - who is in all of His creation.



Matt 23:37-39-- Israels religion is cut off of being Gods chosen--see verse 39--for over 1900 years they have outright refused. Spiritual Israel is now Gods chosen. That includes the gentiles as well. The term doesn't need to be present in the bible. The facts of what the bible teaches makes it a reality. Israel will NEVER do verse 39.


"Paul had two ministries. Acts 26:16. A comparison of his writings from these ministries will show that the first relates to Israel, while the second relates to a time when Israel is Lo-ammi. To Paul was revealed the Secret which was hidden away from ages and generations. Colossians 1:25, Ephesians 3:9. The present age in which Israel is Lo-ammi is the age of the Secret or the dispensation of the grace of God, and it is this age which will close to usher in the final part of Daniel’s vision. Then Israel will be God’s people again and all His promises to and for them will be fulfilled,

“for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.” "
Romans 11:29



It will never happen. They will never do verse 39.[/quote]


"What Happened to Israel?

There were periods in Israel’s history when they were Lo-ammi. This refers to Hosea 1:9.

“Call his name Lo-ammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God”.

These periods are not computed in the prophetic clock, and so far as God is concerned, do not exist for the completion of prophecy. For example, there were five occasions when God ‘sold’ His people into the hands of their enemies, and for these five seasons the prophetic clock stopped and time was reckoned by man only. These five occasions are found in the book of Judges.
Judges 3:8 Mesopotamia 8 years Lo-ammi
Judges 3:14 Moab 18 years Lo-ammi
Judges 4:3 Canaan 20 years Lo-ammi
Judges 6:1 Midian 7 years Lo-ammi
Judges 13:1 Philistine 40 years Lo-ammi
93 years Lo-ammi

This removes a man made discrepancy between the statement of 1 Kings 6:1 and the reckoning from Exodus to the beginning of the Temple as recorded in Acts 13:17-22.
Man’s time (Exodus to Temple beginning) 573 years
Ammi Statement of 1 Kings 6:1 480 years
93 years

We are now in a Lo-ammi period which has lasted almost 2000 years during which Israel has been cut off, so this concept is easy to grasp. Application of this concept makes it possible to reconcile the seventy weeks of Daniel’s vision with the known history of Israel.

“Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon the holy city.” Daniel 9:24.

This emphasis is upon Israel and Jerusalem, not the church.

These seventy weeks are the total time remaining for God’s prophetic clock to run, and this time is peculiar to Israel and Jerusalem, the word “determined” means “to cut off’, and God has cut this time off from man’s reckoning. The clock has stopped, but when God resumes His purposes with Israel, the clock will begin its final sweep.

Events to take place in the seventy weeks include:
To finish transgression
To make an end of sins
To make reconciliation for iniquity
To bring in everlasting righteousness
To seal up the vision & prophecy
To anoint the most holy.

The angel appears to divide the seventy weeks in two.

“From the going forth of the commandment to restore and to

build Jerusalem unto Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks,

threescore and two weeks”. Daniel 9:25.

This distinction must not be overlooked. There was a period of seven weeks from the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem until “the street and wall be built again”. There was a period of 62 x 7 years from the completion of rebuilding to the cutting off of Messiah. This at first sight, allows the following line graph to be compiled. Remember Daniel’s prayer followed his calculation of the years to be accomplished concerning Jerusalem Daniel 9:2, thus a week=7 years not days.

loammi1

Note that the last of the seventy weeks is divided into two parts, which agrees with Revelation. See Daniel 7:25, 9:27, 12:7 and compare with Revelation 11:2-3, 12:6, 14 where three and a half years, forty two months and twelve hundred and sixty days form a common link.

Israel were not put aside, or cut off at the cross as is generally held. The Lord Jesus procured a further period of Grace with His prayer “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.” Luke 23:4. The Holy Spirit confirms this. Acts 3:12-13, 23:6-7, 28:20, Romans 11:1-2, 16-17.

The Book of Acts covers a period of about thirty five years, but there is no suggestion that the final week of Daniel’s vision was fulfilled during this time, and yet it must have been if the seventy weeks are reckoned from the time of the decree to rebuild.

Israel, The Temple and the Land are together when Israel are God’s people. Israel is out of the Land, and its Temple destroyed, or in ruins when they are Lo-ammi. During the seven weeks from the command to restore to the completion of the work Israel were Lo-ammi. This is suggested from the following passages;

Nehemiah 1:3 “great affliction and reproach”

Daniel 9:2 “desolations”

9:7 “confusion with faces”, “driven to
countries”, “trespass against Thee”

9:10 “not obeyed”, “not walked”

9:11 “curse poured out upon us”

9:12 “great evil”

These passages strongly suggest that Israel were Lo-ammi, or “not my people” until the Temple was dedicated. Thus the first seven weeks (49 years) are not to be reckoned in the total seventy weeks.

From the dedication of the Temple there are 62 x 7 years to AD29, when Messiah was cut off. There are then 8×7 years remaining. From the crucifixion to the end of Acts (when Israel was finally set aside, but not cast away for ever) is 35 years (5 x 7 years) which leaves 21 years (3×7 years). Approximately?

The line graph below may now be compiled.

loammi2

One cannot help noticing in Revelation and elsewhere, the distinction that returns between Israel and the other nations when Israel once again become God’s people. During the present age of grace we have the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. When He resume His purposes with Israel He will be the God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our Fathers (Acts 3:13). Our fathers, does not refer to the fathers of us gentiles, we don’t have fathers in the scriptural scheme of things. See Romans 9:4-5.

If the Lo-ammi principle is not applied, then the final seven (including the final horrific three and a half years) would have passed before AD36 and the remaining 29 years of the Book of Acts would not have been completed.

Acts 28:20 shows that God was still dealing with Israel and so the Acts period must be included in the seventy weeks. During the Acts period Paul taught;

“none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:”Acts 26:20.

Paul’s writings during the Acts are linked with Israel and contain nearly 300 quotes from the Old Testament.

In stark contrast, the epistles written after Israel was set aside and the Secret revealed, contain only eight quotes from the Old Testament.

The period from the end of Acts up to the present is not part of Daniel’s vision.

When this present age ends, THEN the final three weeks of the vision will begin." Bible understanding.com
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Re: The work Jesus began

Postby cleve » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:15 am

]
cleve wrote:"Spiritual Israel" and "trinity god" are man's teachings. Those labels are not used in scripture; so I don't use them. I don't like the "trinity god" doctrine very well because it seems bent on diffusing what is attributed to the One God - who is in all of His creation.



kjw47 wrote:Matt 23:37-39-- Israels religion is cut off of being Gods chosen--see verse 39--

What is Israel's religion? How does God cut off religion? Do you think God has a chosen religion? In these verses that you cited, you refer to "Israels religion"; are you equating this term to being the same as "spiritual Israel"?

kjw47 wrote:for over 1900 years they have outright refused. now Gods chosen. That includes the gentiles as well. The term doesn't need to be present in the bible. The facts of what the bible teaches makes it a reality. Israel will NEVER do verse 39.

So, do the facts of what the bible teaches makes the term "spiritual Israel" a reality? What are these facts?
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Re: The work Jesus began

Postby kjw47 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:59 am

cleve wrote:]
cleve wrote:"Spiritual Israel" and "trinity god" are man's teachings. Those labels are not used in scripture; so I don't use them. I don't like the "trinity god" doctrine very well because it seems bent on diffusing what is attributed to the One God - who is in all of His creation.



kjw47 wrote:Matt 23:37-39-- Israels religion is cut off of being Gods chosen--see verse 39--

What is Israel's religion? How does God cut off religion? Do you think God has a chosen religion? In these verses that you cited, you refer to "Israels religion"; are you equating this term to being the same as "spiritual Israel"?

kjw47 wrote:for over 1900 years they have outright refused. now Gods chosen. That includes the gentiles as well. The term doesn't need to be present in the bible. The facts of what the bible teaches makes it a reality. Israel will NEVER do verse 39.

So, do the facts of what the bible teaches makes the term "spiritual Israel" a reality? What are these facts?



John referenced-Israel in Revelation. But literal Israel is cut off as Matt 23 shows. Until they do verse 39--they wont--- When John referenced Israel--he was speaking of Gods chosen, but fact shows literal Israel is not them--thus spiritual Israel is now Gods chosen.
These serve YHVH(Jehovah) a single being God just as Israel did, but also accept Jesus as the one sent forth by God--The Messiah. Any on earth can become apart of Spiritual Israel. Unfortunately Jesus taught only FEW will find the entrance to the narrow gate.
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Re: The work Jesus began

Postby cleve » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:03 pm

Please explain.
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Re: The work Jesus began

Postby cleve » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:29 am

There are those who insist that God was finished with Israel at the cross, and that the church then became spiritual Israel. This cannot be true because it is still to the Jew first during the Acts period.

http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_elect_remnant.htm
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Re: The work Jesus began

Postby kjw47 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:18 pm

cleve wrote:There are those who insist that God was finished with Israel at the cross, and that the church then became spiritual Israel. This cannot be true because it is still to the Jew first during the Acts period.

http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_elect_remnant.htm



The problem is not on Gods side. He left the door open to them, for over 1900 years have outright refused to do verse 39 here-Matthew 23:37-39. It is open to all--one MUST serve the true God of Israel in the OT= A single being God named-YHVH or YHWH(Jehovah), and accept Jesus as the one sent forth by God, the Messiah, our King. They make up spiritual Israel.( Which means--Gods chosen, not literal Israel.
This is 100% fact-- One flock, yet two groups-- The Little flock( Luke 12:32)= 144,000, the anointed, the bride of Christ--bought from earth to heaven as that bride. Rev 14:3)-- And the other sheep( John 10:16) which are not of this fold= the great multitude--not promised heaven anywhere, just twisted words of mens dogma. The teaching in revelation about the great multitude will be standing before the throne( on earth)--Gods kingdom rule at that point will be the only throne in existence.( Daniel 2:44) no matter where one stands they will be standing before the throne. Jesus promised them-earth( Matt 5:5- as well Psalm 37:9,11,29) the new earth--Gods kingdom in full control, no more satan influences.
Earth will become a garden of Eden(Paradise)
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Re: The work Jesus began

Postby cleve » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:44 am

cleve wrote:There are those who insist that God was finished with Israel at the cross, and that the church then became spiritual Israel. This cannot be true because it is still to the Jew first during the Acts period.

http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_elect_remnant.htm



kjw47 wrote:The problem is not on Gods side. He left the door open to them, for over 1900 years have outright refused to do verse 39 here-Matthew 23:37-39.

(1)This doesn't make sense. How did God leave an opportunity for His praises to be returned to Him in the future - from those deceased individuals who were murderers (and other types of evildoers) of over 1900 years ago?
(2) These evildoers practiced the law according to the authority of Moses (Matt. 23:1-3). We are not under the law today.

kjw47 wrote: It is open to all

What is open to all? The law of Moses'?

kjw47 wrote:--one MUST serve the true God of Israel of the OT

(1) How do the JWs serve the true God of Israel of the OT?
(2) Where do JWs go today to serve the true God of Israel of the OT under the authority of Moses'?

kjw47 wrote:= A single being God named-YHVH or YHWH(Jehovah), and accept Jesus as the one sent forth by God, the Messiah, our King. They make up spiritual Israel.( Which means--Gods chosen, not literal Israel.

(1)How does serving Jehovah and accepting Jesus, our King as established under the authority of Moses, make up the entity of "spiritual Israel"? Where? When? Why?
(2)From looking up "Israel" in Strong's Concordance, I found the name to mean: soldier of God. What source did you find your meaning in?
kjw47 wrote:This is 100% fact-- One flock, yet two groups-- The Little flock( Luke 12:32)= 144,000, the anointed, the bride of Christ

(1) So, is this what you believe to be "100% fact": you serve Jehovah by accepting Jesus under the history and authority of Moses' time? JWs are one flock, yet 2 groups. Is that correct?
(2)How do you accept Moses' law after Jesus died?
(3)How do you accept the law of Moses after the grace of Jesus? I thought grace replaced law.
kjw47 wrote:--bought from earth to heaven as that bride. Rev 14:3)

Yet the holy city comes from heaven to earth. (Rev. 21:2)

kjw47 wrote:
And the other sheep( John 10:16) which are not of this fold= the great multitude--not promised heaven anywhere, just twisted words of mens dogma.

Why would Jesus promise heaven to those who sit with Him in heavenly places, far above all? But there are also those who will be staying on the earth, either because they have been sitting under "the history" and authority of the law of Moses, or they might have the potential of inheriting the holy city.

kjw47 wrote:
The teaching in revelation about the great multitude will be standing before the throne( on earth)--Gods kingdom rule at that point will be the only throne in existence.

Only on earth. But "the meek" will inherit the earth, and the holy city will come down from heaven.
kjw47 wrote:( Daniel 2:44) no matter where one stands they will be standing before the throne. Jesus promised them-earth( Matt 5:5- as well Psalm 37:9,11,29) the new earth--Gods kingdom in full control, no more satan influences.
Earth will become a garden of Eden(Paradise)
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Re: The work Jesus began

Postby kjw47 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:47 am

Jesus brought a new covenant=LOVE--Law would be written on ones heart, not on paper if one had the Love Jesus spoke of. That Love Jesus spoke of wouldn't even consider--stealing from ones brothers, coveting their things or mate, Would never commit adultery on their own mate or their brothers. Etc,etc,etc all the way down the line. That Love, Jesus spoke would never go against Gods will to the best of ones abilities. As well would NEVER be mislead into standing on both sides of mens wars of hatred on the orders of men.
The holy city coming down is symbolic. God will be with us like a protection. He doesn't need to be down here to be with us or to protect us.
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Re: The work Jesus began

Postby cleve » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:44 pm

kjw47 wrote:Jesus brought a new covenant=LOVE--Law would be written on ones heart, not on paper if one had the Love Jesus spoke of. That Love Jesus spoke of wouldn't even consider--stealing from ones brothers, coveting their things or mate, Would never commit adultery on their own mate or their brothers. Etc,etc,etc all the way down the line. That Love, Jesus spoke would never go against Gods will to the best of ones abilities. As well would NEVER be mislead into standing on both sides of mens wars of hatred on the orders of men.
The holy city coming down is symbolic.
God will be with us like a protection. He doesn't need to be down here to be with us or to protect us.


God's "salvation covenant" is love, but it is impossible with men. (Matt.19:26) We are not saved by our own faith or effort, let alone by the best of "our" abilities. Rather, we are saved by faith "in" Jesus - his ability in us, not our own.
Do you think God's covenant of love entails just being loving toward God and others? Is it based mainly on good works?
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Re: The work Jesus began

Postby cleve » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:16 am

Check out:
Romans 9:30-11:12 and Romans 11:24-36
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Re: The work Jesus began

Postby kjw47 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:12 pm

cleve wrote:
kjw47 wrote:Jesus brought a new covenant=LOVE--Law would be written on ones heart, not on paper if one had the Love Jesus spoke of. That Love Jesus spoke of wouldn't even consider--stealing from ones brothers, coveting their things or mate, Would never commit adultery on their own mate or their brothers. Etc,etc,etc all the way down the line. That Love, Jesus spoke would never go against Gods will to the best of ones abilities. As well would NEVER be mislead into standing on both sides of mens wars of hatred on the orders of men.
The holy city coming down is symbolic.
God will be with us like a protection. He doesn't need to be down here to be with us or to protect us.


God's "salvation covenant" is love, but it is impossible with men. (Matt.19:26) We are not saved by our own faith or effort, let alone by the best of "our" abilities. Rather, we are saved by faith "in" Jesus - his ability in us, not our own.
Do you think God's covenant of love entails just being loving toward God and others? Is it based mainly on good works?



Faith in the REAL Jesus.
Love to ones family and friends as well as to ones( enemies( hard to do)
The bible teaches we will be judged by our works. But as James taught--faith without works is dead.
I believe James was saying---By doing good works it builds a strong living faith inside one that will stand no matter what, without the works ones faith will fold quickly. So works has its place alongside of ones faith.
There are many requirements on a mortals part.
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Re: The work Jesus began

Postby cleve » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:43 am

kjw47 wrote:Faith in the REAL Jesus.
Love to ones family and friends as well as to ones( enemies( hard to do)
The bible teaches we will be judged by our works. But as James taught--faith without works is dead.
I believe James was saying---By doing good works it builds a strong living faith inside one that will stand no matter what, without the works ones faith will fold quickly. So works has its place alongside of ones faith.
There are many requirements on a mortals part.

But James taught faith without works is dead under the law of Moses.
3.) We Must Never Put Ourselves Under Law (Rom. 7:6 marg.). This is another thing we must never do. The moment we fail to remember this, we quicken the flesh into activity. The flesh revels in law, as we have seen. The law was meant for the flesh; but only, and on purpose to prove the “weakness” of the flesh (Rom. 8:3). The law was never meant for a man “in Christ”. Hence, the moment we come down from the high position in which grace has set us, and put ourselves under law, we stir up the flesh into greater activity and power.
This is what Scripture means by the expression “falling from grace”. This does not mean backsliding or apostasy, as we call it; but it means walking according to the old nature instead of the new; thinking of that; cultivating and attending to that, instead of to the new nature. “Christ is become of none effect unto you whosoever [of you] are being justified by law” (Gal. 5:4). No wonder, then, that this important chapter (Gal. 5.) commences with the solemn exhortation: “For liberty Christ made us free: stand fast, therefore, and do not be entangled again in a yoke of bondage.” Do not put yourselves under any vows, or take any pledges of any kind whatsoever. Do not wear any badges of any kind. They are only badges of bondage. They are the signs and tokens of “the yoke of bondage” under which you have put yourselves. They are entanglements. They imply that grace is not able to keep you, apart from some human props and devices. They practically deny the divine assurance–“My grace is sufficient for thee” (2 Cor. 12:9).
True, we may constantly feel our weakness, through the flesh being in us; but all this has been provided against by “the God of all grace”; for He has said, “My power is made perfect in [your] weakness” (2 ,Cor. 12:9). Avoid, therefore, all “rules for daily living”, all “directories”, or guides for living a “devout life”. Shun them as you would your most deceitful enemy. They will prove fatal to your peace; they will take all the sunshine out of your life; they will turn you from a son, into a bondservant; and sap your spiritual powers at their fountain head. Cease all efforts either to improve the flesh or to get rid of it. Feed the new nature regularly with the divinely prepared food, and everything else will fall into its own proper place. Have full confidence in the grace of God and the power of God (2 Cor. 12:9). And adopt no schemes or plans that would imply that you need any help outside the Word of God. Bible understanding.com
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Re: The work Jesus began

Postby kjw47 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:05 pm

cleve wrote:
kjw47 wrote:Faith in the REAL Jesus.
Love to ones family and friends as well as to ones( enemies( hard to do)
The bible teaches we will be judged by our works. But as James taught--faith without works is dead.
I believe James was saying---By doing good works it builds a strong living faith inside one that will stand no matter what, without the works ones faith will fold quickly. So works has its place alongside of ones faith.
There are many requirements on a mortals part.

But James taught faith without works is dead under the law of Moses.
3.) We Must Never Put Ourselves Under Law (Rom. 7:6 marg.). This is another thing we must never do. The moment we fail to remember this, we quicken the flesh into activity. The flesh revels in law, as we have seen. The law was meant for the flesh; but only, and on purpose to prove the “weakness” of the flesh (Rom. 8:3). The law was never meant for a man “in Christ”. Hence, the moment we come down from the high position in which grace has set us, and put ourselves under law, we stir up the flesh into greater activity and power.
This is what Scripture means by the expression “falling from grace”. This does not mean backsliding or apostasy, as we call it; but it means walking according to the old nature instead of the new; thinking of that; cultivating and attending to that, instead of to the new nature. “Christ is become of none effect unto you whosoever [of you] are being justified by law” (Gal. 5:4). No wonder, then, that this important chapter (Gal. 5.) commences with the solemn exhortation: “For liberty Christ made us free: stand fast, therefore, and do not be entangled again in a yoke of bondage.” Do not put yourselves under any vows, or take any pledges of any kind whatsoever. Do not wear any badges of any kind. They are only badges of bondage. They are the signs and tokens of “the yoke of bondage” under which you have put yourselves. They are entanglements. They imply that grace is not able to keep you, apart from some human props and devices. They practically deny the divine assurance–“My grace is sufficient for thee” (2 Cor. 12:9).
True, we may constantly feel our weakness, through the flesh being in us; but all this has been provided against by “the God of all grace”; for He has said, “My power is made perfect in [your] weakness” (2 ,Cor. 12:9). Avoid, therefore, all “rules for daily living”, all “directories”, or guides for living a “devout life”. Shun them as you would your most deceitful enemy. They will prove fatal to your peace; they will take all the sunshine out of your life; they will turn you from a son, into a bondservant; and sap your spiritual powers at their fountain head. Cease all efforts either to improve the flesh or to get rid of it. Feed the new nature regularly with the divinely prepared food, and everything else will fall into its own proper place. Have full confidence in the grace of God and the power of God (2 Cor. 12:9). And adopt no schemes or plans that would imply that you need any help outside the Word of God. Bible understanding.com



Galations 5:19-21-- a list of unacceptable sins--it teaches those that do any one of these--will NOT enter Gods kingdom, 1Cor 6:9-11 as well another list( will NOT enter Gods kingdom.--drug addiction, lying, cheating, false god worship, being rich.--all products of the table of demons( 1Cor 10:21)--99% on earth do these daily.

2 billion of those that do some of these are being told they are saved or born again--by the blind guides.
-- When the silence has broken--
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