This looks long, but because its in points, it's not that long.
"So in other words, something limits your god's power such that, to reach his goal, he must follow this course of action. No other action, no matter how much more reasonable or clear, is possible."
- I wouldn't say His power is limited. Because you cannot see any other way for God to save us from sin outside of crucifying Jesus, you think He needs to use His power to contradict the laws of phyics or whatever to forgive us. God at any time could click His fingers and the sin payment would be made. But there are so many repurcussions to that logic:
1. How do we learn to live a good life if we don't have anyone to look up to? God came down as Jesus to live like us but remained sinless so that we too could follow in His footsteps
2. God's character could never be revealed unless it was through Jesus Christ. Clicking your finger reveals what about God? Not much... Jesus dieing on the cross shows His love, His mercy, His grace for us.
3. Free will. Nothing honours God more than for us to freely express our love for Him. If He clicked His fingers to make that happen, how would that honour Him?
4. Among others
- And there was no other rational and clearer way.
Let me try clarify from the beginning to try get this death payment that Jesus made across:
1. Adam and Eve were made perfect in the image of God
and both were spiritually alive and physically alive in the Garden of Eden. They had the perfect relationship with their Heavenly Father
2. Free will was given by putting the Tree of Knowledge in the garden. They could only make one bad choice and an abundance of good choices.
3. The devil tempted Adam and Eve who eventually fell.
4. Disobedience to God meant a broken relationship. They both died spiritually
to God and God could no longer accept them.
5. You need to understand how much God hates sin. God is holy. He cannot accept anything unholy.
- The analogy I can think of is this: You one day find an atrocious smell in your room. You spray deoderant around your room and it works for a while, but then the smell comes back. Each day, the smell gets worse and worse. You pinpoint the cause of the smell, and find that its a dead rat underneath the wooden floor. You take out the wood and you throw the rat outside of the house as far as you can, never ever wanting to see it again.
(We are the rat, the smell is the sin. God can forgive us time and time again (the deoderant), but the smell will just keep on coming back. He needs to throw us out completely. The point I'm trying to make with this analogy is that God cannot accept sin)
5. He needed to cover their sin. Adam and Eve experienced physical death for the first time as God had to slaughter a lamb to make clothes for them. The lamb was also a sin payment for their sin (ie, the sheep substituted their death as the sin covering)
6. God is perfect meaning perfect justice, perfect love, perfect mercy, perfect goodness, etc
7. For Him to be perfectly just, He had to condemn us for our sins. To be perfectly merciful and relieve us of our payment, He had to make the payment Himself. You cannot take away what is infinite (as God is infinite) so He had to come down as Jesus to make the sin payment. Jesus is also known as the perfect "lamb".
8. Once the payment was made, God had to raise Jesus to conquer death and to give us life
- How do raise a dead man? Give him life? But he would only die again... You have to cure the disease which is death. Jesus had to die and conquer death to give us life.
9. By giving us life, we rise spiritually, and therefore, are back in relation with God as our spirit and His Spirit are in union again.
10. By being spiritually alive, we are now led by the spirit, rather than by the flesh of the body which is consumed by sin.
"Some people are born with AIDS, if God has any and I mean any hand in that, he doesn't deserve to be loved"
- God can turn what is bad into good. There is purpose in everything He does and allows
. John 9:2-3 tells the story of a person born blind. 2His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" and Jesus answered, "3Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life." And Jesus healed him
- Look up Nick Vujic - a perfect example of what you would consider "God's creation gone wrong with no hope of revealing God's glory". Here's a vid... http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=TtweZxNGk1Y
- You gotta also understand that the reason we have AIDS, diseases, wars, poverty and children born with amputated legs and the like is because of sin. We live in a world full of sin. God's judgement upon us is evident.
"You misunderstood me. I said God created us with traits that would lead to actions that would make God want to kill us."
- No I haven't. I'm trying to get you to see that even though I was made with traits that would lead to actions that would make God want to kill me, yet, I am acting in opposition of my traits (most of the time haha). Meaning, you have no reason to not act in opposition of your traits. The reason I can act in opposition to my original traits is because I have allowed God to change me. I can't do anything (ie, works) to change me, but that change must be given to me.
- Also remember that God has given us the free will to allow Him to work in us. We have no excuse for our actions. We can choose to accept Him and have Him change us, or we can choose to continue living our sinful lives.
"But, christians still sin"
- True dat they do. Because we live in the flesh (Galatians 5:17 - For the flesh sets its desires against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh...)
- But because we are given a new nature through the blood of Jesus Christ, we 'are always being given over to death for Jesus's sake, so that His life may be revealed in our mortal body' (2 Corinthians 4:11). In other words, we are crucifying the flesh daily and living more in the Spirit.
"Paul speaks of his struggle sin in Romans 7"
- Hehe. You need to read Romans 8 in order to get the whole context. Romans 7 is talking about your past and the effect of sin. Romans 8 talks about your hope for your future in the Spirit. The Spirit was only given after the payment was made (John 16:7 - "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you").
- Also, as an unbeliever, you are under the Law. Romans 8 talks about dieing to the Law. By dieing to the Law, can you be condemned by the Law? Romans 8:1 - There is now no condemnation for those who are in Jesus Christ.
"The same idea can be applied to the Amalekites 1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek"
- God doesn't kill innocent people.
- You neglected to read the verse before v3 which says "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt."
- You need to see the severity of sin against God. God cannot stand sin. His standards are high. We don't like it because we can't reconcile death with a forgiving god. But once again, it comes back to justice. God cannot compromise justice for mercy and mercy for justice. Which is why He sent Jesus to die on the cross so that He could serve both justice and mercy.