Ep. 72: Nazis, brothers in law, and communication

[Jason M]

well demons aren't the only ones who changed how they played the game... as i pointed out God no longer interacts with the world in the same way he used to either. If God had a more direct interaction with the world as he did in the old testament then Satan would have to as well, because why would he lay low when god apparently isn't. Givin that God no longer interacts directly then why would Satan continue to do so?? especially if being less conspicuous would help keep people away from God....

[Jason M]

Or, if God has control over demons, and assuming he wants people to believe in him, he could force the demons to show themselves and thus help others see the existence of the spiritual world. It seems odd that God has ordered the universe such that we can explain the occurence of more and more incidents coherently without reference to spiritual entities the more we use our powers of reasoning.

Sorry, it appears I posted before I read this part and/or you edited and added it.. Your basicaly asking... Why doesn't god just show us he is real. Im sure if he wanted to show people he is real or give them a experience on which they can stand and beleive, he could think of a million ways Including forcing demons to show themselves. Must not be what he wants then... else he would do it.

Secondly you talk about God ordering the universe such that we can explain incidents without supernatural. This seems to be a self justifying statement. If an incident occurs which we can indeed fully explain then it wasn't supernatural in the first place. Maybe if you provide an example this would be easier. Point being however, If it was indeed supernatural to begin with, then you would never be able to all of a sudden explain it away coherently. Not saying that God can't use what he created to accomplish things, but supernatural is general referred to as something that goes against the laws and observations of our 4 dimensional universe.

So in the old days people might have thought a sever sickness was related to "talking back to your mother" or "working on the sabath" or who knows what else people attributed things too... God probably isn't going to come down and inform the people about microscopic bacteria and virus's and the intricacies of the immune system, or nuclear physics for that matter, because they are gonna have no idea what he is rambling about. Doesn't mean however then when we discovered that little tid bit of info that something that was suddenly supernatural became something we could explain coherently without reference to spiritual entities. Did god intend for it to be supernatural to begin with or did he just design it that way from the get got and we grew in our understanding of Gods creation?

[mitchellmckain]

well demons aren't the only ones who changed how they played the game... as i pointed out God no longer interacts with the world in the same way he used to either. If God had a more direct interaction with the world as he did in the old testament then Satan would have to as well, because why would he lay low when god apparently isn't. Givin that God no longer interacts directly then why would Satan continue to do so?? especially if being less conspicuous would help keep people away from God....

Now see this is the kind of magical Christianity I do not believe in, which seems to believe in this long ago necromancer god who seems like he could have come right out of a comic book. Well if that is the sort of god and truth I wanted then I can find a dozen better SF&F books with something a lot more reasonable and useful. Coming from the background I do, looking to see if I can find something of value in Christianity, if this sort of thing were all that I could find then my conclusion would have been a big fat NOTHING! But this comic book fantasy is not all I found in Christianity. Instead I found something that describes the here and now of our everyday life, with a God who is not taking a break as Jason seems to suggest, but a God who doing exactly what He has always done.

There is an irreducibly subjective aspect to reality and as a consequence the gods and demons you believe in are given reality by your beliefs. Truth is not reducible to science because as living beings what we want to be the case is a crucially important question that cannot be avoided.

[Jason M]

well demons aren't the only ones who changed how they played the game... as i pointed out God no longer interacts with the world in the same way he used to either. If God had a more direct interaction with the world as he did in the old testament then Satan would have to as well, because why would he lay low when god apparently isn't. Givin that God no longer interacts directly then why would Satan continue to do so?? especially if being less conspicuous would help keep people away from God....

Now see this is the kind of magical Christianity I do not believe in, which seems to believe in this long ago necromancer god who seems like he could have come right out of a comic book. Well if that is the sort of god and truth I wanted then I can find a dozen better SF&F books with something a lot more reasonable and useful. Coming from the background I do, looking to see if I can find something of value in Christianity, if this sort of thing were all that I could find then my conclusion would have been a big fat NOTHING! But this comic book fantasy is not all I found in Christianity. Instead I found something that describes the here and now of our everyday life, with a God who is not taking a break as Jason seems to suggest, but a God who doing exactly what He has always done.

I don't think that god is changing. I know that he is unchanging. however just because god is once seen brushing his teeth doesn't mean he has to brush his teeth forever or else he is changing. He obviously had a different approach when dealing with people in the old testament than our current era with jesus. He manifested himself in some form and gave ordres directly to Moses and Aaron and led Israel himself... a cloud by day and fire by night. Since he doesn't do this same stuff now-a-days then how is he "magical" unless u feel the old testament is magical? and if the old testament is magical then the new testament has to be magical as well else Jesus is a raving lunatic because he sure believed in the OT. I guess i just dont see how u can pick and choose what u want out of the bible

I also don't say that God is any less present in this world, or not caring about it. He is not taking a break, but he does interact with this world very differently.

There is an irreducibly subjective aspect to reality and as a consequence the gods and demons you believe in are given reality by your beliefs. Truth is not reducible to science because as living beings what we want to be the case is a crucially important question that cannot be avoided.

Im not auguring for the existence of gods and demons. i was merely pointing out the ways god interacted with people back in the day according TO the old testament. If you don't wanna believe the OT then what im saying is pretty much crap.

[Aaron]

Now see this is the kind of magical Christianity I do not believe in, which seems to believe in this long ago necromancer god who seems like he could have come right out of a comic book. Well if that is the sort of god and truth I wanted then I can find a dozen better SF&F books with something a lot more reasonable and useful. Coming from the background I do, looking to see if I can find something of value in Christianity, if this sort of thing were all that I could find then my conclusion would have been a big fat NOTHING! But this comic book fantasy is not all I found in Christianity.

I do not think you understood what Jason was trying to point out. God did indeed interact with humans differently in the old testament and as a result so did his enemy. I'm quite certian that was all Jason was trying to say.

[Aaron]

There is an irreducibly subjective aspect to reality and as a consequence the gods and demons you believe in are given reality by your beliefs.

Do you believe in Satan his demon followers, Mitchell?

[mitchellmckain]

I do not think you understood what Jason was trying to point out. God did indeed interact with humans differently in the old testament and as a result so did his enemy. I'm quite certian that was all Jason was trying to say.

Well I don't -- not in the sense which I think Jason means it. I do think that what God has to teach us has changed as our needs and abilities have changed. But the point is that I don't believe in this necromancer god who used magical powers to create everything long ago. I don't believe in "special creation". I don't believe that I and all the rest of the living things on this earth are any less a creation of God than Adam and Eve. And so likewise I don't believe in "special miracles" of long ago either. I am a scientist and a methodological naturalist and so I expect that the way things work right now is exactly the same as they have always worked - it is just matter of understanding correctly how that is.

There is an irreducibly subjective aspect to reality and as a consequence the gods and demons you believe in are given reality by your beliefs.

Do you believe in Satan his demon followers, Mitchell?

No. I believe in God. Do I think that there are such beings as Lucifer and his angels? Yes. But do I credit them with anything? No. He is no more than a theological abstraction to me. So you could say that I don't believe in these any more than I believe in the healing power of crystals. I don't deny that these may be real to other people but they are not real to me. Do you understand what I mean? Now God is quite different. God is real to me. God is an essential part of my life. But Satan and demons are nothing to me.

[Jason M]

Well I don't -- not in the sense which I think Jason means it. I do think that what God has to teach us has changed as our needs and abilities have changed. But the point is that I don't believe in this necromancer god who used magical powers to create everything long ago. I don't believe in "special creation". I don't believe that I and all the rest of the living things on this earth are any less a creation of God than Adam and Eve. And so likewise I don't believe in "special miracles" of long ago either. I am a scientist and a methodological naturalist and so I expect that the way things work right now is exactly the same as they have always worked - it is just matter of understanding correctly how that is.

its your choice to beleive this, but merely means that you disbelieve the writings and events of the old testament.

No. I believe in God. Do I think that there are such beings as Lucifer and his angels? Yes. But do I credit them with anything? No. He is no more than a theological abstraction to me. So you could say that I don't believe in these any more than I believe in the healing power of crystals. I don't deny that these may be real to other people but they are not real to me. Do you understand what I mean? Now God is quite different. God is real to me. God is an essential part of my life. But Satan and demons are nothing to me.

I am then troubled as to why you you think that my "Christianity" is the magical one........ what is urs based off?

[mitchellmckain]

Well I don't -- not in the sense which I think Jason means it. I do think that what God has to teach us has changed as our needs and abilities have changed. But the point is that I don't believe in this necromancer god who used magical powers to create everything long ago. I don't believe in "special creation". I don't believe that I and all the rest of the living things on this earth are any less a creation of God than Adam and Eve. And so likewise I don't believe in "special miracles" of long ago either. I am a scientist and a methodological naturalist and so I expect that the way things work right now is exactly the same as they have always worked - it is just matter of understanding correctly how that is.

its your choice to beleive this, but merely means that you disbelieve the writings and events of the old testament.

No I do not disbelieve them. But the Bible is not a science textbook and trying to make it one reduces it to meaningless absurdity. All you have to do is put it in the context of the everyday Christian life where "God spoke to me this morning", "God arranged this meeting" or this or that event is "a message from God". These are completely non-scientific statements because there is nothing falsifiable or objectively verifiable in these claims. I have learned to take the Bible very seriously and I see Genesis as an historical account but not one that is completely literal but one which is full of parables and symbolism to explain that for which there were no words and for which there may still be no words. For example I do not beleve that the first chapters of Genesis should really be understood as an explanation for why snakes have no legs. There are no talking snakes and there never were. The snake in the garden was the angel Lucifer and this is an explanation of an historical event by which man became estranged from God, but I don't take it at some childishly face value as really being about magical fruit trees and a test of obedience. If I could see no way in which to understand this as something that explains the human condition in a concrete way then I would see no value in it.

I am then troubled as to why you you think that my "Christianity" is the magical one........ what is urs based off?

How should I know what "your Christianity" is? I was commenting on your post and I saw in what you were saying that which completely divorses the Bible from reality as we experience it and thus an example of magical Christianity which I see no value in. Divorsed from reality in this way it just becomes a complete fantasy.

Look you probably don't know that much about me because I haven't seen you in the rest of the forum so I doubt that you have read my intro. I am a Christian but I was not raised Christian. I am actually a scientist - trained to the masters level in physics. My efforts to understand the nature of reality began in science and only then proceeded to philosophy and religion. I could only ask myself if there was any value in Christianity on the basis of taking the truth of science as a given, for science has become too much a part of my perceptual process -- how I see and understand the world. So to even begin to understand me you have to ask yourself how a scientist can come to see some value and truth in Christiantiy, for if you have this adversarial approach where you think that you must choose one or the other, science or the Bible, then I very much do think that you have a magical understanding of Christianty that is rather out of touch with reality.

[Smee]

Hi guys - great show, I enjoy listening to your podcasts. Ill take a stab at the microphone puzzle. You mentioned it was a professional mic like the type singers use, so that would indicate you need phantom power for it to work. You may also need a larger XLR style interface to your computer for this to work.
If it was the phantom power at fault, you will need to get something that generates 48v (like a mixing desk or a phantom power box). I would consider getting a small mixer anyway as you will have much better control over your mic balance and tone then just plugging it into a PC jack.

If that wasnt the issue, and you have done the obvious steps (made sure it plugged into the correct input jack, turned the volume up, switched the mic on etc) my next best guess is you mistakenly brought a beaver that is now sitting on your head and getting very hungry. If so, it will not work very well as a microphone. It is a small fury animal and needs to be released back into the wild.

Cheers
Jacko
(Auckland, New Zealand)

[humanguy]

Hi guys - great show, I enjoy listening to your podcasts. Ill take a stab at the microphone puzzle. You mentioned it was a professional mic like the type singers use, so that would indicate you need phantom power for it to work. You may also need a larger XLR style interface to your computer for this to work.
If it was the phantom power at fault, you will need to get something that generates 48v (like a mixing desk or a phantom power box). I would consider getting a small mixer anyway as you will have much better control over your mic balance and tone then just plugging it into a PC jack.

Not necessarily. In my studio I use both condensor and dynamic microphones, low-z and hi-z. A microphone that a singer uses could be either one.

A microphone that requires phantom power will not work without it, period.

My suggestion is to get an analog to digital converter, and these can be had for next to nothing. Any decent A/D converter will have phantom power with XLR ins and will also have at least one hi-z input.

I see no need for a mixing console in this case. The only thing I would suggest is that whatever type of microphone is being used, make sure that you're also using a pop-filter.

[Emery]

Thanks Smee and humanguy. The issue was the fact that my switch box only takes a stereo input plug, while my mic (like most mics) has a mono plug. So a mono to stereo converter plug did the trick!

I am interested in the mixer idea, however. Although my mic works now, I do wish it was louder. I have to turn the mic volume real high on the PC, and that leads to more hiss. Do you think a preamp type thing would help? Funny that my old gamer's headset boom mic picked up better than this standalone mic. But the headset mic picked up too much movement/cord noise.

And yes, humanguy, I do have a pop filter. Some pantyhose wrapped around a wire loop made from a clothes hanger works wonders!

[Smee]

Getting pro level equipment is great, and though a lot of money down, it will last for years and should give you good results. My friend runs a small podcast show and his gear consist of:

- Behringer 1204 with USB interface.
- CAD 2200 condenser microphone (and he has a desk mounted mic holder arm that can swivle around as he needs and has a second mic for guests just sitting on a table mix stand)
- Reaper audio software (brilliant shareware/very cheap to buy audio software)

The mixer has built in compressors on each mic channel, so its really easy to control dynamic levels from guests. It has 4 mic inputs, plus 2 (I think) stereo inputs that you would hook your CD or PC up to for playback. I found the mixer pretty good, feels solid and reliable, but the faders are not as 'grippy' as I like, and could easily be bumped if your not careful. The beauty of the USB interface is less cables to connect and no problems with noise from unbalanced leads. So other then the power cord, you just need to plug a lead from your microphone into a channel, then connect the USB to your PC.

The CAD mics are excellent, and very reasonably priced. I use a $4000 SE mic in my studio, and the little $200 CAD to my ears sounds nearly as good. Condensor mics are much better for your needs as they pick up signal better and reproduce more range then standard dynamic microphones. These days they are about the same price as dynamic mics, so its worth getting one. You will need phantom power to make them work, but any good mixer will have that feature. Get a quality XLR microphone lead.

A good set of headphones will make life easier, but they can run into many hundreds once you start looking at pro level sets. In NZ we have a cheapie brand called JTS, if you have them there I would try them. I use a HP-535 set and they are fine. Cost about $70 odd (All New Zealand prices here btw)

From what Ive heard of your show your sound levels tend to be pretty good, but if you feel you need to look at some gear the above setup certainly works well. Dont worry about outboard mic preamps, the mixer has more then enough features for what you need. Dont spend heaps of money on microphones, the cheapie range of CADs and Behringers are fine for podcasts. The mixing desk is where you might want to put what you can afford into. Behringer desks are fine, as are Mackie and Yamaha. You will only need about 4 mic channels max, a 3 band EQ will do, plus the built in compressors Behringer and Yamaha desks have is brilliant. Just make sure you get one with a USB or Firewire interface.

Best of luck
Jacko