Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

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Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

Postby Keep The Reason » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:15 pm

Issa doesn't like it that Lois Lerner still is taking the 5th regarding the alleged tax conspiracy against right wing orgs, so he shuts down the meeting before allowing the opposing party make any comment.

Not a good idea.

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Re: Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

Postby osFe » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:36 am

I'm curious what happened before this video even started. It starts with Issa gaveling the meeting to a close, and then Cummings speaks up to say he has a question. That seems to go against everything I know about the procedures of such meetings. This video seems like it may be conveniently edited to enhance the propaganda of one side against the other.
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Re: Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

Postby Dr Mundo » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:00 am

osFe wrote:I'm curious what happened before this video even started. It starts with Issa gaveling the meeting to a close, and then Cummings speaks up to say he has a question. That seems to go against everything I know about the procedures of such meetings. This video seems like it may be conveniently edited to enhance the propaganda of one side against the other.

It was a hearing related to an investigation of the IRS. I thought this was already case closed and that there was no scandal, but who knows. I don't really care about it at all right now. If and when enough evidence is brought up and some wrong doing is demonstrated then I will care, for now not so much.
The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway]
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Re: Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

Postby mitchellmckain » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:56 am

I found a recording that was made by news people, so I listened to what Cummings had to say. I think a lot of people will do the same. What Cummings makes clear is that this is another attempt to manufacture a scandal to discredit Obama, and that if there is any conspiracy involved then it is by the conservatives themselves.
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Re: Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

Postby Keep The Reason » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:21 am

DM and osFe

Lerner took the fifth and Issa gaveled the meeting closed immediately. Procedure and Roberts Rules of Order is to allow everyone on the committee a chance to respond, not to unilaterally gavel it. It's certainly legal to just gavel it, but by overriding any discussion in such a way is in direct conflict with the idea of a non-partisan committee. Issa's agenda is what is obvious here.

The IRS issue is what it is, but what I am highlighting is the attempt by Issa to silence Cummings.
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Re: Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

Postby Dr Mundo » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:34 am

Keep The Reason wrote:DM and osFe

Lerner took the fifth and Issa gaveled the meeting closed immediately. Procedure and Roberts Rules of Order is to allow everyone on the committee a chance to respond, not to unilaterally gavel it. It's certainly legal to just gavel it, but by overriding any discussion in such a way is in direct conflict with the idea of a non-partisan committee. Issa's agenda is what is obvious here.

The IRS issue is what it is, but what I am highlighting is the attempt by Issa to silence Cummings.

Issa was asked by the press if this was just political. He answered with a resounding No. Bullshit, he is a liar of course it is. Mitch is dead on right, Republicans just hate Obama nothing he will ever do is going to be good enough. I don't like Obama because he is just an other establishment president, but I'm not blinded by my dislike for him like these fucking republicans who try to find any and all excuses to attack him even if it needs to be fabricated.
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Re: Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

Postby spongebob » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:47 am

Dr Mundo wrote:I don't like Obama because he is just an other establishment president...


How is he an "establishment president"?
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Re: Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

Postby mitchellmckain » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:06 pm

spongebob wrote:
Dr Mundo wrote:I don't like Obama because he is just an other establishment president...


How is he an "establishment president"?


Because he isn't tearing down the constitution to eliminate the freedom of religion in this country, which Mundo equates with evil itself.
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Re: Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

Postby Dr Mundo » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:19 pm

spongebob wrote:
Dr Mundo wrote:I don't like Obama because he is just an other establishment president...


How is he an "establishment president"?

Doing nothing to close corporate loopholes in tax laws, doing nothing or has said nothing about getting money out of politics. He ran under the guise of change but he looks to me like he is content with the status quo of business as usual. Establishment in the way business is done, as opposed to actual fundamental change in how things are done, politicians representing the views of their donors more than their constituents. People who care more about doing the things that are good for the country rather than worried about getting reelected. Transparency. Maybe I'm being unrealistically hopeful but I would like real change, Obama has left a lot to be desired.

NSA spying, civilian deaths to drone strikes, unconstitutional targeting of an american citizen without due process of law, there are lots of reasons for me not to like him even though there are some things about him I do like. I would love a real progressive president, he isn't that.
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Re: Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

Postby Dr Mundo » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:25 pm

mitchellmckain wrote:
spongebob wrote:
Dr Mundo wrote:I don't like Obama because he is just an other establishment president...


How is he an "establishment president"?


Because he isn't tearing down the constitution to eliminate the freedom of religion in this country, which Mundo equates with evil itself.

I would prefer he uphold the constitution, and that he protect the freedom of religion. I want individuals to be religious I'm all for it. I think religions are important to people's lives. What I do not want is a govermnet endorsement of religion, leave people alone to make their own choices about what religion they want to follow if they even care for one.

If you where just having a friendly go at me, I can see how that is a sort of funny sarcastic comment, in which case good one. If it wasn't a joke then I take what I said above as a counter to that. I'm sure you where just joking though.
The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway]
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Re: Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

Postby Dr Mundo » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:27 pm

This is the politics section so I had no intention of talking about religion, just did it to respond to the joke mitch made.
The question [Do you believe in God?] has a peculiar structure. If I say no, do I mean I'm convinced God doesn't exist, or do I mean I'm not convinced he does exist? Those are two very different questions. [Dr. Arroway]
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Re: Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

Postby osFe » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:30 pm

Keep The Reason wrote:DM and osFe

Lerner took the fifth and Issa gaveled the meeting closed immediately. Procedure and Roberts Rules of Order is to allow everyone on the committee a chance to respond, not to unilaterally gavel it. It's certainly legal to just gavel it, but by overriding any discussion in such a way is in direct conflict with the idea of a non-partisan committee. Issa's agenda is what is obvious here.

The IRS issue is what it is, but what I am highlighting is the attempt by Issa to silence Cummings.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I had assumed there was a real meeting that had been taken place, not just a political stunt.

Dr Mundo wrote:
spongebob wrote:
Dr Mundo wrote:I don't like Obama because he is just an other establishment president...


How is he an "establishment president"?

Doing nothing to close corporate loopholes in tax laws, doing nothing or has said nothing about getting money out of politics. He ran under the guise of change but he looks to me like he is content with the status quo of business as usual. Establishment in the way business is done, as opposed to actual fundamental change in how things are done, politicians representing the views of their donors more than their constituents. People who care more about doing the things that are good for the country rather than worried about getting reelected. Transparency. Maybe I'm being unrealistically hopeful but I would like real change, Obama has left a lot to be desired.

NSA spying, civilian deaths to drone strikes, unconstitutional targeting of an american citizen without due process of law, there are lots of reasons for me not to like him even though there are some things about him I do like. I would love a real progressive president, he isn't that.

Well said. I too see Obama as another establishment politician with no intention of any real change. That's why I never voted for him and threw my vote away in both elections. To me personally it seems like he cares more about trying to establish his legacy for the history books than he does actually running or fixing the country. Not that the Republicans have made his job easy on any of the things he has tried to do.
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Re: Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

Postby mitchellmckain » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:46 pm

Dr Mundo wrote:
mitchellmckain wrote:Because he isn't tearing down the constitution to eliminate the freedom of religion in this country, which Mundo equates with evil itself.

I would prefer he uphold the constitution, and that he protect the freedom of religion. I want individuals to be religious I'm all for it. I think religions are important to people's lives. What I do not want is a govermnet endorsement of religion, leave people alone to make their own choices about what religion they want to follow if they even care for one.

If you where just having a friendly go at me, I can see how that is a sort of funny sarcastic comment, in which case good one. If it wasn't a joke then I take what I said above as a counter to that. I'm sure you where just joking though.

Regardless, you clarified what you meant, and so I acknowledge that my snide comment has no real informative content. I absolutely do not pretend to have any real knowledge of what is going on in your head.
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Re: Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

Postby spongebob » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:31 pm

Dr Mundo wrote:This is the politics section so I had no intention of talking about religion, just did it to respond to the joke mitch made.


Don't filter your comments because of that. The section is just for topics that center around politics, but that doesn't mean that religious topics that apply to politics are off limits.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
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Re: Issa (R) Cuts off mic of Cummings (D)

Postby spongebob » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:06 pm

Dr Mundo, I'm going to question each of these items and ask what you expect the president could do.

Doing nothing to close corporate loopholes in tax laws


Republican controlled House; narrowly Democratic Senate. What would you expect he could pass regarding this?

doing nothing or has said nothing about getting money out of politics.


Same as the last question, and perhaps even more importantly, what could he possibly do about a system that is specifically dependent upon money. I think he's a pretty smart guy and all, but he's no genius.

He ran under the guise of change but he looks to me like he is content with the status quo of business as usual.


Understanding politics and the dynamics of just getting elected is important and some of the "change" business applies just to that. However, he has driven policy in a different direction than our last president. Not every aspect of course, but he is only the president, not an all powerful dictator. His power has limits.

Establishment in the way business is done, as opposed to actual fundamental change in how things are done, politicians representing the views of their donors more than their constituents.


Actually, I'm going to directly disagree with you on this. The way things are typically "done" in Washington is through deals. Call it the buddy system, back scratching, smoke filled rooms, whatever euphemism you like. The presidents who have gotten the most out of their presidency were the best at cutting deals. Obama is terrible at this. He hates politics and he's one of the worst in modern history when it comes to shmoozing with the other side in order to get things done. So, I would call that going directly against the "establishment business". He's more of a scholarly type that likes to analyze the situation, decide the best course of action, announce his decision and expects everyone to agree and do their part to make it happen. Unfortunately, Washington doesn't work that way. My question for you is this: how do you propose that one man change the way a 200-year-old government body of 535 people set policy?

People who care more about doing the things that are good for the country rather than worried about getting reelected.


This is not only ideological but also very subjective. I'm completely convinced that Ted Cruise believes that his ideas are about the good of the country, but I also believe that his ideas are disastrous. Obama has equally subjective views that are considered disastrous by the conservatives. But as I said, what specifically could he do?

Transparency. Maybe I'm being unrealistically hopeful but I would like real change, Obama has left a lot to be desired.


I'm always an advocate for more government transparency and even though he has moved in this direction, it has not been enough for me. But then, I always remember that I don't know what he knows, and what he knows could probably scare the shit out of every citizen in the US. So maybe some things are best kept hidden.

NSA spying,


I'm fine with spying as long as there is some structured process required to justify the spying. Without spying of some sort, the bad guys would basically have free reign, don't you think?

civilian deaths to drone strikes,


I assume you mean foreign nationals. This is a bit messy and I agree that it should be as minimal as possible, but what is the alternative? Allow terrorists to freely operate? Invade Pakistan? Ask Pakistan to arrest terrorist? A big reason why the 9/11 attacks happened is because we were being more passive during the years leading up to that. If we had been more covertly aggressive, perhaps we would have discovered and eliminated them before the attack occurred, even if it meant a few innocent people had to die. After all, thousands of Americans died and they were also innocent.

unconstitutional targeting of an american citizen without due process of law,


I suppose I could agree with this one, though it is reasonable to apprehend these people and bring them to justice. And depending on the circumstances, killing them is not completely out of the question. Remember that police often have to kill criminals to defend themselves and innocent citizens. So, say we discover a group of terrorists in a well fortified camp in Pakistan that includes a few American citizens who have basically defected, and the probability of getting them out alive is near 0. I'm fine with bombing the whole lot of them. Can you really justify letting them continue with what they are doing just because they won't get due process? I'm calling this scenario like a hostage situation where a police officer is justified in shooting a citizen who is threatening the lives of others. Do you disagree?

there are lots of reasons for me not to like him even though there are some things about him I do like. I would love a real progressive president, he isn't that.


But until we have a lot more progressive representation in both houses, a more progressive president would be a waste. There is, as we speak, a conservative movement to impeach President Obama. I doubt it will ever reach serious mass but imagine a far more progressive president. The cry of impeachment would escalate greatly.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
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