Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

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Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Keep The Reason » Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:43 pm

Not that One16Unashamed will show his face again here for weeks after being soccer-balled around for his racism, but coincidentally NPR dug a bit into Margret Sanger's life and here's what they found:

NPR Link

Fact Check: Was Planned Parenthood Started To 'Control' The Black Population?
August 14, 201512:59 PM ET
Amita Kelly

Ben Carson alleged in an interview with Fox News Wednesday that Planned Parenthood puts most of its clinics in black neighborhoods to "control the population" and that its founder, Margaret Sanger, "was not particularly enamored with black people."

Planned Parenthood has been a target on the campaign trail after a series of sting videos was released alleging the organization illegally profits from selling aborted fetal tissue. Carson, a famed neurosurgeon turned Republican presidential candidate, has been a vocal opponent of the group. He was also in the news this week after reports surfaced that he once used aborted fetal tissue for research.

Here's a closer look at Carson's comments: On Fox News Wednesday, Carson was asked about Democrats' criticism that Republicans who want to defund Planned Parenthood are waging a "war on women." He responded:

"Maybe I am not objective when it comes to Planned Parenthood, but, you know, I know who Margaret Sanger is, and I know that she believed in eugenics, and that she was not particularly enamored with black people.

"And one of the reasons you find most of their clinics in black neighborhoods is so that you can find a way to control that population. I think people should go back and read about Margaret Sanger who founded this place — a woman Hillary Clinton by the way says that she admires. Look and see what many people in Nazi Germany thought about her."

It's not the first time Planned Parenthood has faced criticism about its founder and the placement of its clinics — former presidential candidate Herman Cain made a similar statement in 2011.

What Planned Parenthood said

In response, Planned Parenthood said Carson was not only "wrong on the facts, he's flat-out insulting." Alencia Johnson, assistant director of constituency communications, told NPR:

"Does he think that black women are somehow less capable of making the deeply personal decision about whether to end a pregnancy than other women? ... It's a shame that a doctor, who should understand the barriers black women face accessing high-quality preventive and reproductive health care services, would pander so clearly to anti-abortion extremists on the right."

Did Margaret Sanger believe in eugenics?

Yes, but not in the way Carson implied.

Eugenics was a discipline, championed by prominent scientists but now widely debunked, that promoted "good" breeding and aimed to prevent "poor" breeding. The idea was that the human race could be bettered through encouraging people with traits like intelligence, hard work, cleanliness (thought to be genetic) to reproduce. Eugenics was taken to its horrifying extreme during the Holocaust, through forced sterilizations and breeding experiments.

In the United States, eugenics intersected with the birth control movement in the 1920s, and Sanger reportedly spoke at eugenics conferences. She also talked about birth control being used to facilitate "the process of weeding out the unfit [and] of preventing the birth of defectives."

Historians seem to disagree on just how involved in the eugenics movement she was. Some contend her involvement was for political reasons — to win support for birth control.

In reading her papers, it is clear Sanger had bought into the movement. She once wrote that "consequences of breeding from stock lacking human vitality always will give us social problems and perpetuate institutions of charity and crime."

"That Sanger was enamored and supported some eugenicists' ideas is certainly true," said Susan Reverby, a health care historian and professor at Wellesley College. But, Reverby added, Sanger's main argument was not eugenics — it was that "Sanger thought people should have the children they wanted."

It was a radical idea for the time.

Sanger wrote about this mission herself in 1921: "The almost universal demand for practical education in Birth Control is one of the most hopeful signs that the masses themselves today possess the divine spark of regeneration."

Was Sanger "not particularly enamored with black people"?

Sanger's birth control movement did have support in black neighborhoods, beginning in the '20s when there were leagues in Harlem started by African-Americans. Sanger also worked closely with NAACP founder W.E.B. DuBois on a "Negro Project," which she viewed as a way to get safe contraception to African-Americans.

In 1946, Sanger wrote about the importance of giving "Negro" parents a choice in how many children they would have.

"The Negro race has reached a place in its history when every possible effort should be made to have every Negro child count as a valuable contribution to the future of America," she wrote. "Negro parents, like all parents, must create the next generation from strength, not from weakness; from health, not from despair."

Her attitude toward African-Americans can certainly be viewed as paternalistic, but there is no evidence she subscribed to the more racist ideas of the time or that she coerced black women into using birth control. In fact, for her time, as the Washington Post noted, "she would likely be considered to have advanced views on race relations."

Are most of Planned Parenthood's clinics in black neighborhoods?

In 2014, the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health research center, surveyed all known abortion providers, including Planned Parenthood clinics, in the U.S. (nearly 2,000) and found that 60 percent are in majority-white neighborhoods.

Planned Parenthood has not released numbers on the neighborhoods of its specific clinics, but responding to a request for demographic information, the organization said that in 2013, 14 percent of its patients nationwide were black. That's nearly equal to the proportion of the African-American population in the U.S.

However, Carson is tapping into a more subtle sentiment — the targeting of African-Americans in health care systems. There have been documented cases of that happening, including the now-infamous Tuskegee study. Starting in the 1930s, the Tuskegee Institute enrolled black sharecroppers in experiments and allowed them to suffer from syphilis untreated, though they were told they were getting treatment.

And, Wellesley's Reverby said, that was sometimes the case for birth control clinics historically, too. They may have been available in communities where more general health care was not, raising some ethical questions.

"One of the issues is ... what happens when you can find birth control clinics but you can't find primary care? It's just a question of what the state's willing to provide for," Reverby said. "Was there overuse of birth control and sterilization in poor communities in some states? Absolutely. It's a complicated story."

Did Sanger have a connection to Nazi Germany?

Not that NPR found. Sanger herself wrote in 1939 that she had joined the Anti-Nazi Committee "and gave money, my name and any influence I had with writers and others, to combat Hitler's rise to power in Germany."

She also said books of hers had been destroyed and that she had intellectual friends who were sent to concentration camps or put to death. Sanger did not have a connection to the Nazis, but a loose association comes through her involvement in the eugenics movement.

American and German eugenicists closely collaborated, and the Nazis reportedly borrowed much of their 1933 so-called sterilization law from American models. That law allowed the government to forcibly sterilize people with alleged genetic disorders.


As expected, Sanger was interested in eugenics because the idea was popular at the time and seemed to make scientific sense. No, she wasn't anti-black; in fact, she was quite pro-black.

No, none of this will work to change One16Unshamed's perspective.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby One16Unashamed » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:21 pm

I'm still around, I said all I needed to say in my last post. But since you are missing me, I will say a few more things on this issue.

NPR, is a liberal news source so it's no surprise they defend Sanger. You can try to justify her speech and actions like speaking at a KKK meeting all you want but it doesn't change the facts that she was racist. If you're going to give her a pass then you have to give white and black slave owners in America a pass. You have to give those that stood against integration ( democrats btw) a pass also. No one can be held responsible for their words or actions according you your view.

And in a few years you will need to give Christians a pass for standing against homosexuality.

And also there is a group of black pastors seeking to remove a statue of Sanger from the smithsonian.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Jesus Raves » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:33 pm

What is this thing you call "new information"? I scoff at it! What is this thing you call "news outlets which spout more than just conservative talking points"? I scoff at it!
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Keep The Reason » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:25 pm

Some people just are relentlessly immune to actual, demonstrable facts. Again-- purposeful, entrenched ignorance. Or, in one word, "Idiots".

There's a lot of information on this Sanger issue, no less than her own autobiography where she talks about going to this KKK meeting. Tea Party whackjobs like One16 just state the headline: "Magaret Sanger spoke at a KKK meeting!"

Then they go dead silent. You know why they go silent? Because if anyone has the curiosity to delve into the facts of WHY she did it, they would learn that there were clear and non-controversial reasons.

At the time the KKK was a much larger, less fringe-tagged organization. You know who was a member? Harry S. Truman. You know why? He was up for re-election and wanted to win and the KKK in his area were a fairly powerful group. So he pandered to them. And then had nothing to do with them. Sanger did not even pander to them -- she merely went to talk with them.

Sanger spoke to the KKK because at the time, the real enemy against birth control -- just like it is today -- was the Catholics. The KKK of the day were not sought out because they didn't like blacks, but because they were steadfastly anti-Catholic. And they voted. And there were a lot of them.

Here is Sanger's account of her trip to talk to the Ku Klux Klan from pages 366-367 of Margaret Sanger An Autobiography (1971 reprint by Dover Publications, Inc. of the 1938 original published by W.W. Norton & Company). I note two sections in red because they really stood out to me.

All the world over, in Penang and Skagway, in El Paso and Helsingfors, I have found women's psychology in the matter of childbearing essentially the same, no matter what the class, religion, or economic status. Always to me any aroused group was a good group, and therefore I accepted an invitation to talk to the women's branch of the Ku Klux Klan at Silver Lake, New Jersey, one of the weirdest experiences I had in lecturing.

My letter of instruction told me what train to take, to walk from the station two blocks straight ahead, then two to the left. I would see a sedan parked in front of a restaurant. If I wished I could have ten minutes for a cup of coffee or bite to eat, because no supper would be served later.

I obeyed orders implicitly, walked the blocks, saw the car, found the restaurant, went in and ordered some cocoa, stayed my allotted ten minutes, then approached the car hesitatingly and spoke to the driver. I received no reply. She might have been totally deaf as far as I was 1 concerned. Mustering up my courage, I climbed in and settled back. Without a turn of the head, a smile, or a word to let me know I was right, she stepped on the self-starter. For fifteen minutes we wound around the streets. It must have been towards six in the afternoon. We took this lonely lane and that through the woods, and an hour later pulled up in a vacant space near a body of water beside a large, unpainted, barnish building.

My driver got out, talked with several other women, then said to me severely, "Wait here. We will come for you." She disappeared. More cars buzzed up the dusty road into the parking place. Occasionally men dropped wives who walked hurriedly and silently within. This went on mystically until night closed down and I was alone in the dark. A few gleams came through chinks in the window curtains. Even though it was May, I grew chillier and chillier.

After three hours I was summoned at last and entered a bright corridor filled with wraps. As someone came out of the hall I saw through the door dim figures parading with banners and illuminated crosses. I waited another twenty minutes. It was warmer and I did not mind so much. Eventually the lights were switched on, the audience seated itself, and I was escorted to the platform, was introduced, and began to speak.

Never before had I looked into a sea of faces like these. I was sure that if I uttered one word, such as abortion, outside the usual vocabulary of these women they would go off into hysteria. And so my address that night had to be in the most elementary terms, as though I were trying to make children understand.

In the end, through simple illustrations I believed I had accomplished my purpose. A dozen invitations to speak to similar groups were proffered. The conversation went on and on, and when we were finally through it was too late to return to New York. Under a curfew law everything in Silver Lake shut at nine o'clock. I could not even send a telegram to let my family know whether I had been thrown in the river or was being held incommunicado. It was nearly one before I reached Trenton, and I spent the night in a hotel.


Do those sections in red make it sound like Sanger was thinking of these folks are allies? How the right wing loons twist this into some kind of "alliance" is beyond the scope of rational thinking people. There's nothing in that suggests any such "alliance" was in place. Clearly, she calls it a "weird experience" and she could see in their faces the look of people who would explode in hysterics at the mere mention of the world abortion. Hardly a crowd ripe for any alliances. It obviously and overtly looks like she was venturing into hostile territory to pursue her agenda of women's rights of their own reproductive destiny.

So why would she go to the KKK? Because at the time, the KKK was not just anti-black, they were also anti-Catholic and it was Catholicism that was the greatest obstacle to birth control-- just like the Catholics are today.

Like many things, the KKK of the day was seen quite differently than it is today. Just like in those days, it was the Democrats who were the right-wing loons-- until Johnson, a Democrat, and the Kennedys -- Catholic Northern Democrats no less -- pushed through the Civil Rights agenda for blacks. That changed everything-- it's why the virulent racists defected en masse to the Republican side where they remain entrenched, and quite welcomed, today.

This whole argument is very much like how the creationists will cite Darwin's rhetorical postulating how "absurd" it is that something like the complex eye could evolve, and that's where they stop reading. they never go to the next paragrpah to see that Darwin was saying, "Absurd, right-- now let me show you why it's NOT absurd!" No, if they read that next line, their fairy tale version of things crumbles. Same thing with One16 -- if he actually goes the next step to see WHY Sanger spoke to the KKK, his whole fairly tale crumbles into the pixie dust whence it is made. And that would mean he'd be learning something, which is a consequence he must avoid at all costs.

One16 is utterly a clean slate when it comes to understanding -- or bothering to learn -- any historical facts of any issue. He's such a blank slate that one might say he's the right-wing Tea Party highly polished Hubble mirror. No effort to look into any details, he merely reflects the party line of his chosen faith(s). If the Conservative nutjobs state something is true, he simply believes it, and reflects it like a good little sock-puppet. He has no interest in facts, no interest in expanding his understanding, and indeed he is one of those people who doesn't even realize how bereft of critical thinking he actually is. Some people are so dumb they are too dumb to know they are dumb.

And he demonstrates this every time he posts. Everybody has tried to get him to make the connection to how this shit even matters, and he squawks, "Ark! Sanger went to KKK! AwwwwWWWARK!", like some parrot on the shoulder of Glenn Beck.

But I'm well aware of the huge difference between a person like him and, say, myself, or most of the rational thinkers here.

I actually did not know much about Sanger, and so I'm just looking into these stories now. So, I went to both sides to look into the claims. I got input from both sides. And surprise surprise, the right wing side was the side where all the bizarre conspiracy nonsense was.

I got that autobiography section from a right-wing site (Free Public . com. Their header reads: Welcome to Free Republic! Free Republic is the premier online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web. We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America. And we always have fun doing it. Hoo-yah!
Jump right in!
Most visitors to Free Republic are attracted to our very popular (and, warning: addictive) conservative news and discussion forum which can be found by clicking here or following any of the forum links in the sidebars.)

And they, like One16, seem to not even understand that Sanger's visit was clearly weird. Why do I say it's weird? BECAUSE SHE EVEN SAYS SO IN THE VERY SECTION THEY QUOTED!

When you actually dig into the story, you see she didn't lobby for "exterminating negro babies", she wasn't a wild-eyed eugenicist, nor was she an ally of the KKK. She was just pursuing reproductive rights for women in ways that were opportunities of the time. Nothing surprising or unethical or outlandish. Just-- normal.

In other words, something a person of deep-seated bigotry and the need to bleat party lines could only process under an umbrella of conspiracy,, stripped of anything but the most superficial of taglines upon which to rest his entire foundation.

If you want to hear Sanger in her own words:



And in the end, I have to thank One16. You helped introduce me to a brave, smart and caring woman, someone years ahead of her time. Out of your ignorance, I've found a new person to admire in American history.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby One16Unashamed » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:59 pm

I'm not one bit surprised that you not only continue to defend this woman but that now you admire her. I'm not giving her a pass, I'm not going to defend her speech at a KKK meeting like you do. She was a racist. The thing I want to know from her speech is what "purpose" did she accomplish? Did she get them to stop lynching blacks?

Reason evades you, and you will only view things from a hardcore progressive standing.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Jesus Raves » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:02 pm

You are grotesquely ignorant.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby One16Unashamed » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:05 pm

Jesus Raves wrote:You are grotesquely ignorant.


Ridicule, classic. I don't know why I thought you might have something to contribute here.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Keep The Reason » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:28 pm

One16Unashamed wrote:I'm not one bit surprised that you not only continue to defend this woman but that now you admire her. I'm not giving her a pass, I'm not going to defend her speech at a KKK meeting like you do. She was a racist. The thing I want to know from her speech is what "purpose" did she accomplish? Did she get them to stop lynching blacks?

Reason evades you, and you will only view things from a hardcore progressive standing.


You are a fucking IDIOT. It's not just ridicule -- you are a bona fide IDIOT. The words are sitting right there in front of you. Her very words specifically saying that she thought them WEIRD and incapable of anything more than even the basic fundamentals. And you take all that information, look RIGHT PAST IT, and say "You're defending her and she's a racist!" She clearly gained little to nothing from them because they were fools, which is why you NEVER HEAR OF HER BEING INVOLVED WITH THEM AGAIN.

Idiot. No other word for you. Purposeful, entrenched superficial non-critical thinking idiot. Look, if you were talking to someone who had lost most of their brain in an accident and no matter what you said to them they'd simply keep replying, "Julius Caesar Wears Fruit of the Loom underwear", at some point you'd recognize the person you're talking to has utterly no grasp of anything factual and you'd surrender any decent discussion with that person. In this analogy, you're the person with the brain challenge.

The difference between you and the fictional guy in my analogy is, the guy in the analogy had an accident and can't help being mentally handicapped.

You however, opt for that position on purpose. Therefore: Go fuck off, :duh: you aren't worth my Tuesday evening.
Last edited by Keep The Reason on Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Jesus Raves » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:42 pm

Spot on. Exactly why I didn't bother arguing back.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Simplyme » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:25 pm

Since this is a site for xtians and atheist...to stay on subject.......

Jesus Christ hung out with sinners all the time. I wonder what that's about? :-)
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Keep The Reason » Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:58 am

Simplyme wrote:Since this is a site for xtians and atheist...to stay on subject.......

Jesus Christ hung out with sinners all the time. I wonder what that's about? :-)


Well, from JCs perspective, everyone was a sinner and everyone was hellbound unless he did something about it. So it was either hang out with people or be completely alone and not be able to spread his message.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Simplyme » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:21 am

Keep The Reason wrote:
Simplyme wrote:Since this is a site for xtians and atheist...to stay on subject.......

Jesus Christ hung out with sinners all the time. I wonder what that's about? :-)


Well, from JCs perspective, everyone was a sinner and everyone was hellbound unless he did something about it. So it was either hang out with people or be completely alone and not be able to spread his message.


I was more curious on 1-16 answer. Since he is bitching about Sanger "hanging" with the KKK. It was a sarcastic comment. My bad.
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Keep The Reason » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:32 am

Simplyme wrote:
Keep The Reason wrote:
Simplyme wrote:Since this is a site for xtians and atheist...to stay on subject.......

Jesus Christ hung out with sinners all the time. I wonder what that's about? :-)


Well, from JCs perspective, everyone was a sinner and everyone was hellbound unless he did something about it. So it was either hang out with people or be completely alone and not be able to spread his message.


I was more curious on 1-16 answer. Since he is bitching about Sanger "hanging" with the KKK. It was a sarcastic comment. My bad.


I thought it was a way to bring sanity back to this thread. So imagine how bad things are with someone that a biblical based question with a reasonable answer is seen as a relief!

No worries. I appreciate it.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby One16Unashamed » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:04 pm

KTR, here the thing that baffles me. It's that a woman like Sanger can say racist things, break bread with known racist of her time, develop a program for eugenics and somehow you admire and defend her. Why?? Because she said in her biography that she had a "weird" experience. The reality is you and I cannot know for sure exactly what was said that night. However she knowingly spoke to a group of racist, she has documented statements of racist remarks.

Yet somehow in your eyes, I am a racist. Although I have never spoken at an event of known racist, haven't made racist remarks in this forum, which you accuse me of. It's this hypocrisy that baffles me.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby One16Unashamed » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:10 pm

Simplyme wrote:Since this is a site for xtians and atheist...to stay on subject.......

Jesus Christ hung out with sinners all the time. I wonder what that's about? :-)


Margert Sanger was not God in the flesh, also He gave a great parable on this with the Good Samaritan. But since I am racist I shouldn't worship a Jew right?
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