Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Jesus Raves » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:47 pm

That's a truly impressive level of reading right past.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Simplyme » Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:26 pm

The guy is a total racist dick!
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Keep The Reason » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:08 pm

Case proven.

Does anyone have any doubt now that :duh: has no interest in a discussion? Whatever. That was a lot of time I spent but it was interesting to learn something I didn't know before. About Sanger.

It wasn't news to me that :duh: is an idiot. That part just confirms his status as your typical right wingnut bigoted Christian role model. Glad he's on your side, theists.
Last edited by Keep The Reason on Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Jesus Raves » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:47 pm

But... but in that other thread he said this:
One16 wrote:I'm not looking to win anything here, I am looking to discuss and hash out different views.

Clearly, he's an open-minded guy here only to understand views different from his own!
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Keep The Reason » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:55 pm

Yeah, I know. The thing is, this is precisely the type of person I cut to the chase and call an idiot rather than try to reason with them. I've dealt with :duh: many times before and this is his M.O. every single time. So someone new-ish comes along and reads me calling :duh: an idiot and they say, "Hey, that's not nice, you're a mean asshole, KtR" and they don't realize that we've been down this road many times before.

Anyway, enough precious life moments spent on this blockhead racist dingbat. On to more interesting things.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Jesus Raves » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:58 pm

I have a bad memory. Did I call you out for calling him an idiot? (Aside from the "grotesquely ignorant" vs. "idiot" foreplay.)
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Keep The Reason » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:56 am

Jesus Raves wrote:I have a bad memory. Did I call you out for calling him an idiot? (Aside from the "grotesquely ignorant" vs. "idiot" foreplay.)


I wasn't criticizing you, I was just explaining why I call some people idiot.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Jesus Raves » Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:27 am

Mhm, mhm. Always criticizing me. Well, I eagerly await his return, in which he will continue to ignore evidence that contradicts his open-minded opinions.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Simplyme » Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:57 am

Keep The Reason wrote:Case proven.

Does anyone have any doubt now that :duh: has no interest in a discussion? Whatever. That was a lot of time I spent but it was interesting to learn something I didn't know before. About Sanger.

It wasn't news to me that :duh: is an idiot. That part just confirms his status as your typical right wingnut bigoted Christian role model. Glad he's on your side, theists.


KTR, do not despair, I learned so much from you post. And I also learned a lot about Sanger. Knowledge is POWER!!!!
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Keep The Reason » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:55 am

Jesus Raves wrote:Mhm, mhm. Always criticizing me. Well, I eagerly await his return, in which he will continue to ignore evidence that contradicts his open-minded opinions.


I imagine it will be a cut 'n' run like he did on the Right Wing Loons competition.

Life for a wingnut like :duh: is very simple and easy. It's always "The Left" or "The Liberals" or "The Liberal Media". It's never their own people, or themselves.

That's what makes the :duh: a :duh:.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Jesus Raves » Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:43 pm

It makes me sad. Ideology should never trump truth.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby One16Unashamed » Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:21 pm

Keep The Reason wrote:
Jesus Raves wrote:Mhm, mhm. Always criticizing me. Well, I eagerly await his return, in which he will continue to ignore evidence that contradicts his open-minded opinions.


I imagine it will be a cut 'n' run like he did on the Right Wing Loons competition.

Life for a wingnut like :duh: is very simple and easy. It's always "The Left" or "The Liberals" or "The Liberal Media". It's never their own people, or themselves.

That's what makes the :duh: a :duh:.


Actually I am going to read The Pivot of Civilization and then get back to you.
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Keep The Reason » Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:21 pm

The Pivot of Civilization
by Margaret Sanger
Free at The Gutenberg Project
To cut some folks off at the pass, I don't advocate for violence, oppression, genocide, war, hatred or intolerance. Instead, I advocate for education, organization, activism, and the democratic process. ~~ KtR
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby One16Unashamed » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:23 am

Keep The Reason wrote:The Pivot of Civilization
by Margaret Sanger
Free at The Gutenberg Project


Yep that's where I am reading it at.
"In God you come up against something which is in every respect immeasurably superior to yourself. Unless you know God as that-and, therefore, know yourself as nothing in comparison-you do not know God." -C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
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Re: Magaret Sanger & Eugenics

Postby Keep The Reason » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:08 pm

Here's another thing. Sanger was not even pro-abortion. The idea that PPH was created to somehow weaken and destroy the blacks is completely insane because you cannot do that with birth control which is what Sanger promoted.

In reading this article, I'll quote:

Anti-choicers wield misattributed and often outright false quotes about Sanger as weapons to shame Black women for exercising their right to choose, and even more nonsensically, to shame them for supporting Planned Parenthood.

“Margaret Sanger was a racist and a eugenicist! She wanted to exterminate the Black race!” Such is the clarion call of these anti-choicers.

At the outset, I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out that whether or not Planned Parenthood had its roots in anti-Blackness is irrelevant in a discussion of the services that Planned Parenthood provides in 2015, ranging from abortion care to prevention and treatment of sexually transmitted infections, to Pap smears and other forms of cancer screening. The United States is rooted in anti-Blackness. Anti-Blackness was built into the U.S. Constitution by this country’s Founding Fathers. Nearly every major corporation that exists today was either founded by racists, employed racists, built their business on anti-Blackness and slavery, or all of the above. Any argument that Black women in America should disavow Planned Parenthood because of some history of anti-Blackness would necessarily require that Black women disavow the very country in which we live.

But on to the truth about Margaret Sanger.

Sanger was pro-birth control and anti-abortion. This may surprise you, considering that Planned Parenthood opponents frequently accuse Sanger of erecting abortion clinics in Black neighborhoods, a practice they claim the organization continues to this day.

But this is simply not true.

Sanger opposed abortion. She believed it to be a barbaric practice. In her own words, “[a]lthough abortion may be resorted to in order to save the life of the mother, the practice of it merely for limitation of offspring is dangerous and vicious.” Her views are, ironically, in keeping with the views of many of the anti-choicers who malign and distort her legacy.

In fact, Planned Parenthood did not even begin performing abortions until after 1973, when the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision in Roe v. Wade legalized the practice. Margaret Sanger had been dead for seven years by then. And currently, less than 4 percent of Planned Parenthood clinics that offer abortion services are located in communities where more than one-third of the population is Black, according to a recent analysis conducted by Planned Parenthood that Alencia Johnson, assistant director of constituency communications at Planned Parenthood, shared with me via email. A broader analysis conducted by the Guttmacher Institute in 2011 based on data available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that fewer than one in ten abortion providers overall are located in neighborhoods where more than half of residents are Black. It is simply false that Planned Parenthood is targeting Black women by setting up clinics primarily in Black neighborhoods.

It is true that Sanger was a proponent of eugenics, and pro-choice advocates do themselves no favors by attempting to whitewash this fact and paint Sanger as some infallible feminist hero. Sanger was passionate about contraception—perhaps to a fault—and her fervor about promoting her birth control agenda led her to align herself with eugenicists, along with racists and an assortment of people of questionable character.

But it is simply untrue that Margaret Sanger wanted to exterminate the Black race. This is a flat-out lie. Yet it is one that is repeated ad nauseum, both by anti-choice activists and the politicians who support them, most recently Ben Carson.

In propagating this lie, anti-choicers infantilize Black women and strip them of their agency: They portray Margaret Sanger’s birth control agenda as something that was done to Black women, rather than something in which Black women and much of the Black community as a whole enthusiastically participated.

The Negro Project

In her seminal book Killing the Black Body, Dorothy Roberts points out that leaders in the Black community actually welcomed Sanger’s birth control agenda in the 1930s, and even criticized it for not going far enough to serve Black people.

W. E. B. Du Bois, who was one of the first Black leaders to publicly support birth control and who worked closely with Sanger to advocate for it, even serving on the board of a clinic that Sanger opened up in Harlem, criticized the wider birth control movement because of its failure to address Black people’s needs as well.

It was this failure that gave birth to the sinister-sounding Negro Project.

Due to segregation policies in the South, the birth control clinics that opened in the 1930s were for white women only. Sanger wanted to change that. She sought to open clinics in the South staffed by Black doctors and nurses, and to educate Black women about contraception. In 1939, after she had been named honorary chairman of the board of Birth Control Federation of America (the precursor to Planned Parenthood), Sanger launched the Negro Project. The Federation’s Division of Negro Services, a national advisory council, which included prominent Black leaders like Du Bois, Mary McLeod Bethune, E. Franklin Frazier, Walter White, and Rev. Adam Clayton Powell, worked to manage the Negro Project.

The Negro Project had nothing to do with some nefarious plot to exterminate Black people or to “sterilize unknowing Black women,” as claimed by BlackGenocide.org—which is a widely read website seemingly dedicated to spreading false information about Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood. Rather, the Negro Project was a concerted effort by Sanger and Black community leaders to bring birth control to the South in a way that would assuage the deep-seated fears of Black birth control opponents like Marcus Garvey, who believed that the use of birth control in the Black community was tantamount to Black genocide.


So in the 1920s, when Sanger was creating these birth control places, abortions were illegal and she was against them. They didn't become legal until 8 years after she was dead. Yet the right wing sock puppet machine continuously floats this lie that she was trying to destroy the blacks by creating abortion mills in their neighborhoods.

Birth control techniques are completely voluntary. You can't force people to use them, so it's patently obvious that this was no attempt to eradicate the black community but to get the poverty running rampant within their ranks, fostered by a complete lack of reproductive self-authority that kept the poverty running wild, under control. Not to exterminate them via abortions -- which were ILLEGAL -- but to reduce the large families that were subject to grinding poverty.

And flagrant reproduction in poor communities is nothing new -- it's part of the feedback loop that makes poverty so insidious. Poverty breeds a lack of education and hygiene, it breeds a lack of morality, it allows for an escalation of violence, alcoholism, and drug use, and one of the few reliefs from the sheer overwhelming burden of poverty is the ability to get a bit of pleasure out of sex. And so that breeds more children who cannot be cared for and who grow up without education and impoverished which leads to more violence, and etc.

Interestingly, about a generation after Sanger was successful getting birth control in place... blacks began to finally move into the middle class.

It is this type of thing that should put every rational person at direct odds with our right wing. They never, ever have the truth of things on their side. They just do not have any facts (and we can see this in :duh: time and time again.) So when you have an agenda, and you want to control people, and you want power, and the facts don't support you in any way, shape or form, what is left to you?

Lying. Endless propaganda and lying. None of :duh:'s statements about Sanger are true, none of them. Even the ones that talk about blacks "breeding" and how it must be stopped is, within the overt context of the letters in which they appear, completely geared towards their betterment. In fact, read that article and you'll learn this:

a Sanger quote in which she defends the Negro Project in seemingly racist language: “The mass of Negroes particularly in the South still breed carelessly.”

The first quote, even when read in full and in context, certainly sounds damning:

"The mass of Negroes particularly in the South still breed carelessly and disastrously, with the result that the increase among Negroes, even more than among whites, is from that portion of the population least intelligent and fit, and least able to rear children possibly."

But what anti-choicers either don’t know or willfully obscure is that Sanger borrowed this quote directly from W. E. B. Du Bois.


Who is W. E. B. Du Bois who worked so closely with Sanger?

WEB_DuBois_1918.jpg
WEB_DuBois_1918.jpg (28.05 KiB) Viewed 750 times


An African American civil rights leader

Du Bois was a passionate advocate of civil rights and a defender of Black women, specifically. He also publicly supported birth control. Nevertheless, as Dorothy Roberts wrote, “Du Bois and other prominent Blacks were not immune from the elitist thinking of their time. As reflected in Du Bois’s statement borrowed by Sanger to promote the Negro Project, they sometimes advocated birth control for poorer segments of their own race in terms painfully similar to eugenic rhetoric.”

Does the fact that Sanger borrowed the quote from Du Bois excuse her actions? Maybe. Maybe not. But it certainly provides some much-needed context.


The worst that can be said of Sanger was that she spoke in terms that were common in the early 1900s; she was no different in this from most Christians, who were also generally pro-Eugenics at the time. But that she was a heroine of the women's rights movement and to the problem of black over-population concerns, one of the key roots of their continued impoverishment, is utterly indisputable. She was no racist. And she was a hero.
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