Common Core Standards

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Common Core Standards

Postby spongebob » Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:46 am

I wonder who else on this forum has been paying attention to yet another front in the ongoing clash of cultures in the US. A set of educational standards was developed and adopted a few years ago by most of the states as the "Common Core" standards for education. They are a set of standard goals and accomplishments that students should be expected to achieve at various grade levels. Note that these are not curricula, but simply standards, such as saying a kid in the 3rd grade should be able to add and subtract. There are multiple controversies involved with this movement. One of them is the methodology of teaching various subjects, particularly math skills, but I want to put that aside for the moment and focus on the other major controversy, that assertion that the CC standards are somehow an attempt by Liberals to indoctrinate children into being more Liberal and accepting of LGBT lifestyles and anti-religion. I've done some self-education on the subject and so far I haven't seen even the smallest shred of evidence for this. Has anyone else here? Have I missed something obvious? If I haven't, then how can these political mouthpieces be so far afield of reality?
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
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Re: Common Core Standards

Postby Stacie Cook » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:51 am

Wow. I have not heard the claim that CC is some attempt by liberals to indoctrinate children. Anything I have heard about CC is that the math program is less than desirable. I don't think any of our local schools use CC, but we are just getting into Kindergarten....
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Re: Common Core Standards

Postby spongebob » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:59 pm

Stacie Cook wrote:Wow. I have not heard the claim that CC is some attempt by liberals to indoctrinate children. Anything I have heard about CC is that the math program is less than desirable. I don't think any of our local schools use CC, but we are just getting into Kindergarten....


I know. At this point the wackos on the right claim that everything from Spongebob Squarepants to Halloween cookies is an attempt to brainwash their children. Basically, if it doesn't come directly from their church, it is subversive. But these are the wild eyed lunatics and no one should be paying attention to them, except that some of them have an actual voice, like this education board member in Alabama.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
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Re: Common Core Standards

Postby Keep The Reason » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:36 pm

spongebob wrote:
Stacie Cook wrote:Wow. I have not heard the claim that CC is some attempt by liberals to indoctrinate children. Anything I have heard about CC is that the math program is less than desirable. I don't think any of our local schools use CC, but we are just getting into Kindergarten....


I know. At this point the wackos on the right claim that everything from Spongebob Squarepants to Halloween cookies is an attempt to brainwash their children. Basically, if it doesn't come directly from their church, it is subversive. But these are the wild eyed lunatics and no one should be paying attention to them, except that some of them have an actual voice, like this education board member in Alabama.


And Glenn Beck. That he supports (and creates) these CC conspiracy theories should be more than enough conclude there is utterly nothing rational about the attack on CC.

Here's a good review of the "issues":

Link

The Tea Party’s Next Bogeyman: Obama's Common Core Conspiracy
The educational community is divided on new national curriculum standards. But conservative activists see something more sinister.

Last week, conservative talk show host and media mogul Glenn Beck decided to let his listeners in on what he dubbed "the biggest story in American history." It's called System X. "If you don't stop it," he warned, "American history is over as you know it."

As Beck explained it, a little-known Department of Education program, supported by rich philanthropists, business interests, and the United Nations, was turning public schools into the world’s next great data-mining frontier. Using carrots offered up in the 2009 stimulus bill, the federal government and its contractors could compile hundreds of points of data on your kids and use it for who knows what. The result: "System X: a government run by a single party in control of labor, media, education, and banking; joined by big business to further their mutual collective goals."

The gateway to this dystopian future, which Beck predicted would lead to some portions of the United States embracing Nazism....


....blah, blah, blah, blah, "Nazism" -- time to stop listening to Glenn Beck. But if you stop listening to Beck on this, then you basically leave the anti-CC movement.

You know what I'm really surprised at? I'm really surprised they haven't ditched the whole "commies under the bed (Common Core), gays recruiting little boys, we must control all women and their sexuality" battlefronts and gone after us atheists-- at best they only do that with evolution, which they've already completely lost.

So what are they waiting for? There is this distant on-the-horizon-threat of, "If we do X Y and Z the next thing you know we'll all be atheists!" but they really aren't coming after us. They really seem to be focused on these areas of homosexuality, women's rights, and education -- and they are losing on every front, deservedly so.
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Re: Common Core Standards

Postby spongebob » Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:16 pm

I have read this and of course it's more right wing lies. Obama was not the author of this movement, it was Janet Napolitano, back in 2006. Actually, it has roots going back to Bush's No Child Left Behind and was a logical extension of the increased testing brought about by that legislation. Since testing was nationally standardized, the grade level accomplishments should be as well so that's what CC addressed, a lack of a national standard of what all students were expected to learn at any given grade level. I can see how extremists would argue that including things like evolution and global warming as topics to learn in science contradict their radical religious views but I can't see where they get the idea that there's a LGBT agenda in there.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
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Re: Common Core Standards

Postby spongebob » Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:55 pm

Here's the article that made me think about this, in case anyone is interested. Only in the South... :roll:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bet ... 92&ref=yfp
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Re: Common Core Standards

Postby Keep The Reason » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:49 pm

spongebob wrote:I can see how extremists would argue that including things like evolution and global warming as topics to learn in science contradict their radical religious views but I can't see where they get the idea that there's a LGBT agenda in there.


Because "Teh Ghueyz"™ are the cause of all evil on Planet Wingnuttia
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Re: Common Core Standards

Postby Rian » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:46 pm

Stacie Cook wrote:Wow. I have not heard the claim that CC is some attempt by liberals to indoctrinate children. Anything I have heard about CC is that the math program is less than desirable.

As a math tutor, I just shake my head at the stupidity of the math program ...

at least I'll be getting more business :roll:
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Re: Common Core Standards

Postby Particles » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:01 pm

From what I've heard, I like the math approach in CC. Instead of focusing on a rote style of learning, it's more conceptual so that the student should understand better what is going on in a math operation.
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Re: Common Core Standards

Postby Aaron » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:08 pm

Particles wrote:From what I've heard, I like the math approach in CC. Instead of focusing on a rote style of learning, it's more conceptual so that the student should understand better what is going on in a math operation.

I like the idea of learning concepts too. Teach the student how to teach themselves.
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Re: Common Core Standards

Postby spongebob » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:53 am

Rian wrote:
Stacie Cook wrote:Wow. I have not heard the claim that CC is some attempt by liberals to indoctrinate children. Anything I have heard about CC is that the math program is less than desirable.

As a math tutor, I just shake my head at the stupidity of the math program ...

at least I'll be getting more business :roll:


Shouldn't you explain which math program you are disappointed with? As I pointed out in Common Core, there is no national math curriculum, only national standards of subject matter learning by grade level.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
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Re: Common Core Standards

Postby spongebob » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:05 am

Aaron wrote:
Particles wrote:From what I've heard, I like the math approach in CC. Instead of focusing on a rote style of learning, it's more conceptual so that the student should understand better what is going on in a math operation.

I like the idea of learning concepts too. Teach the student how to teach themselves.


These two comments are not the same. Learning a concept is not the same thing as teaching oneself. There are many concepts in mathematics that one has to learn and master before one can continue on to the next level, but the next level contains more concepts, so learning one concept does not teach someone how to teach himself.

Teaching oneself is not a difficult or mysterious thing. Really, the term "teaching" is misused most of the time. It should be changed to "guiding" or "coaching" if we are to be more accurate. Teachers do not cause learning, they merely present subject matter and explain difficult concepts to students when they are confused. So all the learning is done on the student's side, it always is. All one has to do to teach oneself is take up some idea or practice that they don't already know. You pick up a guitar and open a guitar lesson book and you are teaching yourself. There's nothing amazing about it. How concepts are presented to students can affect how quickly they learn, but we shouldn't confuse that with anything but the quality of the presentation. Now some subjects are better to be taken on with a guide because of the complexity involved and the likelihood of the student becoming frustrated and giving up. But even then, the student is doing the learning; the teacher is nothing but a coach. And I don't believe you can actually teach anyone to learn for themselves. This is about motivation and that comes from within. Once people decide that there's value in learning something, they will do it.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
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Re: Common Core Standards

Postby Aaron » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:49 am

spongebob wrote:These two comments are not the same.

I did not spell out the connection I was making, but I have the belief that if you can reveal to another person your complete reasoning for doing a certain kind of math starting from the most basic principles one can think of then that should not only teach the student how to do the math operation, but also why the math operation has been chosen for the specific problem and how to teach the student to think of problems as many small bite sized problems where those problems can be taken back to basic premises and the solution and plan forward can be built from there. This is how I was taught in college by my math and engineering professors and it is also the approach I naturally resonate with. I do not like cookbook steps, I like when the person can show the reasons why each step in the operation is being done. That is the connection I was making. I think when you teach a student how to do that they will take it upon themselves to apply the same approach to other problems in their life, hence you are teaching them how to teach themselves. That's what I was thinking.
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Re: Common Core Standards

Postby spongebob » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:19 pm

Aaron wrote:I did not spell out the connection I was making, but I have the belief that if you can reveal to another person your complete reasoning for doing a certain kind of math starting from the most basic principles one can think of then that should not only teach the student how to do the math operation, but also why the math operation has been chosen for the specific problem and how to teach the student to think of problems as many small bite sized problems where those problems can be taken back to basic premises and the solution and plan forward can be built from there. This is how I was taught in college by my math and engineering professors and it is also the approach I naturally resonate with. I do not like cookbook steps, I like when the person can show the reasons why each step in the operation is being done. That is the connection I was making. I think when you teach a student how to do that they will take it upon themselves to apply the same approach to other problems in their life, hence you are teaching them how to teach themselves. That's what I was thinking.


Well, this is certainly true but it's also the way I learned every form of math I know, not to mention physics and chemistry and engineering principles. It's not like teachers just throw out a bunch of equations and say this is the one you use here and this one for that. I don't see anything particularly advanced in this; it's just basic teaching methods. But it certainly doesn't teach people how to teach themselves either.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
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