This Insane Political Season

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This Insane Political Season

Postby Keep The Reason » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:10 pm

Just stunned by the relentless nightmare that has been this political season. Usually crap like Hillary's stuff would be fodder for a colorful and chaotic campaign, but the 16 ring circus that is the Trump campaign makes Clinton's problems seem to be outright boring.

I thought Rudy Giuliani's brain was going to blow out the back of his head he was so over the top.

I cannot believe SCOTT BAIO was up on that stage at all. #DonnieLovesChachi!

Melania Trump would be perfectly at home here, what with the plagiarism issue, but the best part was when Trump campaign manager Paul Mannafort just said "There's been no cribbing" and outright blamed Hillary Clinton for Melania's plagiarism.

Pat Smith literally blamed Hillary for her son's death in Benghazi, as if Hillary had anything to do with the attack that occurred, and even after NINE investigations no one can find ANY wrong doing on her part. But still-- her fault.

Trump himself called into Fox News while Pat Smith was emoting the loss of her son on stage -- literally undermining what was a key moment at his own convention.

Just unbelievable. Totally unbelievable. 3 more nights to go.
To cut some folks off at the pass, I don't advocate for violence, oppression, genocide, war, hatred or intolerance. Instead, I advocate for education, organization, activism, and the democratic process. ~~ KtR
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Re: This Insane Political Season

Postby Rian » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:51 pm

My daughter is so depressed that this is her first presidential election where she can vote *gag*
"Aurë entuluva! Auta i lómë!" ("Day shall come again! The night is passing!") -- from JRR Tolkien's The Silmarillion

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Re: This Insane Political Season

Postby Aaron » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:26 pm

The political candidates we have to choose from is a judgment of God. I really do think that. If you think that sounds crazy stop and think, Trump? Really?! Really??! And should-be-in-prison-if-it-were-anyone-else-Hillary. Yep. Just pathetic, how can this be the cream of the crop?
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Re: This Insane Political Season

Postby Keep The Reason » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:26 pm

Aaron wrote:The political candidates we have to choose from is a judgment of God. I really do think that. If you think that sounds crazy stop and think, Trump? Really?! Really??! And should-be-in-prison-if-it-were-anyone-else-Hillary. Yep. Just pathetic, how can this be the cream of the crop?


Gods have nothing to do with this. That whole line of thinking merely jettisons personal responsibility and it's just a cowardly way out.

For one and a half generations, the right wing has inculcated hatred, fear of "the other", bigotry, racism, and tribal religiosity along with crippling education in favor of myths and nonsense. I could fill the forum with endless examples. And now what we have is a nation of a 100 million or so who are addicted to empty sound bytes, who are cravenly stupid, ignorant of the role of their own government, think doing nothings like "praying" will fix problems, and who have been fed an underlying throbbed poison of doomsday from the Christian right since Hal Lindsay started his nonsense in 1976. And the liberals? they have the better arguments but they have utterly no spines.

Trump is an authoritarian and many many people seek an authoritarian when they are crippled with fear. The USA has not been "the home of the brave" for a long time. The conservatives have whipped up tribal fears and the liberals have been spineless, and BOTH sides pander and cater to corporations and greed. It's all too human.

For man's sake-- leave the gods out of it for once, and let's take OWNERSHIP of our culture and FIX IT.
To cut some folks off at the pass, I don't advocate for violence, oppression, genocide, war, hatred or intolerance. Instead, I advocate for education, organization, activism, and the democratic process. ~~ KtR
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Re: This Insane Political Season

Postby Simplyme » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:49 am

Aaron wrote:The political candidates we have to choose from is a judgment of God. I really do think that. If you think that sounds crazy stop and think, Trump? Really?! Really??! And should-be-in-prison-if-it-were-anyone-else-Hillary. Yep. Just pathetic, how can this be the cream of the crop?


Judgment of god? You sound like a raving lunatic. And we are in the mess we in because of people like you. Judgment of god?????? :smt101 :smt101 :smt101
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
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Re: This Insane Political Season

Postby Simplyme » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:53 am

For man's sake-- leave the gods out of it for once, and let's take OWNERSHIP of our culture and FIX IT.


You expect to much from humans. :-)
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
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Re: This Insane Political Season

Postby spongebob » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:32 am

Aaron wrote:The political candidates we have to choose from is a judgment of God. I really do think that. If you think that sounds crazy stop and think, Trump? Really?! Really??! And should-be-in-prison-if-it-were-anyone-else-Hillary. Yep. Just pathetic, how can this be the cream of the crop?


Even if I was still a believer I would never pawn this off on god. The old testament might justify that, what with the OT god being so vengeful and insecure. But with Jesus, all of that was supposed to have changed. In other words, god pivoted, right? Now he supposedly loves everyone and wants the best for them. So there's absolutely no justification for blaming this on god. A liberal Christian POV would assume that god allows humans to do what they want with the world, despite his best efforts to guide them, and that's the only religious POV that makes any sense at all to me. So from that perspective it is 100% the responsibility of humans to figure this stuff out. And it is possible to do so. The right wing has done things the last two decades to create our current political environment. You can't really blame liberals because they are just voted in by the people who believe their ideals, but the right wing has spent the last two decades spewing hate about any liberal idea and assassinating the character of every liberal politician and scaring up tribal fears among their supporters. This is what has caused our current climate, not god, real or imagined.

And I would challenge you to support your accusations of Hillary. Like most conservatives, you are likely just assuming the right wing hate machine is correct and are not challenging any part of it. Have you really examined these accusations? Do you really know anything about it? I once knew a co-worker who constantly griped about Hillary and how awful she was. When I asked him why he hated her so, he said it was because she moved to NY so she could win a seat in the Senate. Really??? Are you like him and just being irrational about Clinton?
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Re: This Insane Political Season

Postby Jesus Raves » Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:22 pm

It't not just a conservative problem. I know Bernie supporters who also harbor an irrational dislike for Hillary. And this is coming from someone who's also not a fan of Hillary -- though I have good reason, in my opinion.
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Re: This Insane Political Season

Postby spongebob » Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:55 pm

Jesus Raves wrote:It't not just a conservative problem. I know Bernie supporters who also harbor an irrational dislike for Hillary. And this is coming from someone who's also not a fan of Hillary -- though I have good reason, in my opinion.


Do share...
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Re: This Insane Political Season

Postby Aaron » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:08 pm

spongebob wrote: Are you like him and just being irrational about Clinton?

I'm sure I have some unfair underlying bias against Hillary. But I'd like to think my distrust of her has to do with the email server fiasco and also the way Bernie was treated by the DNC (I find it rediculous that Bernie ran his whole campaign against Wall Street and then in the end he basically has no choice but to support Hillary, who gets loads of funds from Wall Street, just because Bernie can't risk someone even worse than Hillary (Trump) getting in. Bernie should have won the nomination, his campaign was amazing, his supporters were phenomenal, he got ran off the road by people with money who just wanted Hillary, that's the vibe coming off that I sense.).

Jesus Raves wrote:It't not just a conservative problem. I know Bernie supporters who also harbor an irrational dislike for Hillary. And this is coming from someone who's also not a fan of Hillary -- though I have good reason, in my opinion.

I know similar Bernie supporters.
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Re: This Insane Political Season

Postby spongebob » Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:31 pm

Aaron wrote:I'm sure I have some unfair underlying bias against Hillary. But I'd like to think my distrust of her has to do with the email server fiasco and also the way Bernie was treated by the DNC (I find it rediculous that Bernie ran his whole campaign against Wall Street and then in the end he basically has no choice but to support Hillary, who gets loads of funds from Wall Street, just because Bernie can't risk someone even worse than Hillary (Trump) getting in. Bernie should have won the nomination, his campaign was amazing, his supporters were phenomenal, he got ran off the road by people with money who just wanted Hillary, that's the vibe coming off that I sense.).


I agree that the DNC used unfair practices to boot Bernie, but part of that is party. Parties are not open, governmental bodies; they are more like private clubs and Bernie wasn't in the club before he ran for prez. Neither was Trump, btw. And in comparison, the GOP's actions were much more extreme. They were and still are trying their best to facilitate the rejection of Trump. The only difference is the GOP was mostly open about it, or at least there was media reporting on it where the DNC was more secretive. Another part of it is the way the voting rules are set up in each state. Had there been more open primaries, Bernie could have easily won despite DNC tinkering. I would be extremely surprised if both parties haven't been doing similar things for decades. Remember that there was a time, not all that long ago, when the party members just met and chose their candidate.

The private email server is not a fiasco; it's something that has been done before by Republicans. It's overblown. But even if you count it as a serious breach of security; it isn't even close to the disaster that Donald Trump represents.

Bernie had a lot of supporters and a lot of unconventional ideas, but let's not get too carried away with his ideas, many of which represented a serious departure from even the most left leaning Democratic Presidents in the last half century. Short of a complete overhaul of congress, it's unlikely his ideas would have found any traction.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
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Re: This Insane Political Season

Postby Aaron » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:37 pm

spongebob wrote:
Aaron wrote:I'm sure I have some unfair underlying bias against Hillary. But I'd like to think my distrust of her has to do with the email server fiasco and also the way Bernie was treated by the DNC (I find it rediculous that Bernie ran his whole campaign against Wall Street and then in the end he basically has no choice but to support Hillary, who gets loads of funds from Wall Street, just because Bernie can't risk someone even worse than Hillary (Trump) getting in. Bernie should have won the nomination, his campaign was amazing, his supporters were phenomenal, he got ran off the road by people with money who just wanted Hillary, that's the vibe coming off that I sense.).


I agree that the DNC used unfair practices to boot Bernie, but part of that is party. Parties are not open, governmental bodies; they are more like private clubs and Bernie wasn't in the club before he ran for prez. Neither was Trump, btw. And in comparison, the GOP's actions were much more extreme. They were and still are trying their best to facilitate the rejection of Trump. The only difference is the GOP was mostly open about it, or at least there was media reporting on it where the DNC was more secretive. Another part of it is the way the voting rules are set up in each state. Had there been more open primaries, Bernie could have easily won despite DNC tinkering. I would be extremely surprised if both parties haven't been doing similar things for decades. Remember that there was a time, not all that long ago, when the party members just met and chose their candidate.

The private email server is not a fiasco; it's something that has been done before by Republicans. It's overblown. But even if you count it as a serious breach of security; it isn't even close to the disaster that Donald Trump represents.

Bernie had a lot of supporters and a lot of unconventional ideas, but let's not get too carried away with his ideas, many of which represented a serious departure from even the most left leaning Democratic Presidents in the last half century. Short of a complete overhaul of congress, it's unlikely his ideas would have found any traction.

Hey, don't think because I have problems with Hillary that means I'm a Trump supporter. Far from it. And it was a serious breach of security. If you or I did that we'd be in jail. That alone is all anyone needs to know. What she did was what every single government and government contract employee is trained over and over again not to do and is what they sign their rights away not to do and she not only got away with it she could possibly be our president. It just bothers me that she thinks it's not a big deal. It is a big deal. I can understand that for those who don't work in secure environments not understanding why it's a big deal, but it is.

And again, just because I'm saying this about Hillary doesn't mean I'm a Trump supporter, because I'm not.
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Re: This Insane Political Season

Postby spongebob » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:05 am

Aaron wrote:Hey, don't think because I have problems with Hillary that means I'm a Trump supporter. Far from it. And it was a serious breach of security. If you or I did that we'd be in jail.


Not likely. Colin Powell did it; he's not in jail.

It just bothers me that she thinks it's not a big deal. It is a big deal. I can understand that for those who don't work in secure environments not understanding why it's a big deal, but it is.


You don't know that's what she thinks. Based on the amount of attention and investigation I can't imagine that she thinks its not a "big deal", but suggesting it requires jail time is something entirely different.

Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past.

In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.


~James Comey, FBI Director
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Re: This Insane Political Season

Postby Jesus Raves » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:03 pm

spongebob wrote:Do share...

I don't like her close ties to Wall Street, but that's just how it goes for many longtime politicians like her. Far more than that, though, her warhawkish tendencies concern me greatly. At times, I wonder if we'd end up involved in less foreign conflict if Trump were to win. That's not to say I support Trump -- because of course I don't. I could go policy-by-policy, because she's generally far too moderate for me, but I think what I've already stated is enough to establish decent grounds for dislike.
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Re: This Insane Political Season

Postby Simplyme » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:09 pm

You really think that there would be less foreign conflict if Trump were to win?

"We must deal with the maniac in North Korea with nukes"

"Putin has no respect for America, I will get along with him"

"Don't take sides with Israel, so we can lead negotiation"

"I could negotiate a deal with Israel and Palestinians"

When asked who he talks with consistently about foreign policy, he responded, "I'm speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain and i've said a lot of things"

Really.....less conflict?
I find it rather amusing, when thought of as ignorant or stupid(though I can be on many subjects). Especially by those who believe in a deity up in heaven watching our every move, and rewarding or punishing us after we have expired.
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