Common Core

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Common Core

Postby spongebob » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:49 am

I have a question about this topic that just keeps confounding me. It seems that the chief opponents of Common Core are, surprise surprise, conservatives. And the more conservative one is, the more likely they oppose it. I've heard a lot of tropes about why the oppose it, but every single one of those can easily be discarded as either an outright lie or some form of gross exaggeration about the program. Now I have no horse in this race; I'm not involved in any way. From what I have read, and I have read through the entire online scope of Common Core, you can find them Here, and I have not seen anything the least bit controversial or objectionable. In fact my biggest complaint is that its just boring stuff and it seems like it is compiled of ideas and concepts that should have been embedded in our educational system decades ago. I mean, a common set of educational standards across all 50 states? Pretty droll stuff if you ask me. If I have any real concern, it would be that the core standards include a national test intended to evaluate all students on the same material. This only concerns me because we already seem to have too much standardized testing going on. I wouldn't mind seeing it consolidated but just adding more and more testing is not necessarily a good thing. So let's have it; does anyone here have specific reasons why this is a bad thing? Please be realistic.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
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Re: Common Core

Postby Keep The Reason » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:02 pm

Dude, seriously? You don't know why the right wing despises Common Core? I'll bet you I can paste a single short paragraph from the National Review, a well known conservative magazine, and you'll instantly get why...

Ready? Here goes:

NatRev

Common Core is not “ObamaCore,” as some suggest. While President Obama often tries to claim credit, the truth is that the development of Common Core was well underway before he took office in January 2009. Some argue that states were coerced into adopting Common Core by the Obama administration as a requirement for applying for its Race to the Top grant competition (and No Child Left Behind waiver program). But the administration has stated that adoption of “college and career readiness standards” doesn’t necessarily mean adoption of Common Core. At least a handful of states had K–12 content standards that were equally good, and the administration would have been hard-pressed to argue otherwise.


Get it yet?

Hehehe.
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Re: Common Core

Postby spongebob » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:50 pm

No, I know all the talking points. I was hoping someone who opposes it could explain in his own words what he/she dislikes about it. And I was really hoping they might name something that isn't already on the long list of debunked nonsense. Yeah, I know, it's a lost cause. But again, my theme has been communication, dialogue, exchange of ideas, not really interested in a tornado of insults. Don't see much of that.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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Re: Common Core

Postby Keep The Reason » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:11 pm

spongebob wrote:No, I know all the talking points. I was hoping someone who opposes it could explain in his own words what he/she dislikes about it. And I was really hoping they might name something that isn't already on the long list of debunked nonsense. Yeah, I know, it's a lost cause. But again, my theme has been communication, dialogue, exchange of ideas, not really interested in a tornado of insults. Don't see much of that.


Communication, dialogue, exchange of ideas? Their whole worldview on this is predicated on a tornado of insults against Obama. He implemented it, therefore it's bad because he's a Knee-Grow Muslim Socialist. That's their position. The End.

You can't honestly expect rational exchange of ideas from racist-bots who have no ideas, only vitriol againist a great leader based purely on his skin color and their endless grinding ignorance.

You're looking for elegance and culture from a clutch of wild hogs. It ain't gonna happen. What's that old saying? "You can wrestle with a pig in the mud, but everyone winds up filthy, and the pig likes it."
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Re: Common Core

Postby Stacie Cook » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:47 am

I don't personally know much about common core, but all of the teachers that I know are opposed to common core. They say that the process of teaching math is a long-winded way of teaching math. More steps are involved to get to the same answer as before.
That's pretty much all I know, besides the math problem that was going around facebook for a while. It did seem like more steps were being added.....
It is probably easy enough if you are starting with it from Kindergarten, but harder to follow if you are in a higher grade. Just my guess.
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Re: Common Core

Postby spongebob » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:19 pm

Stacie Cook wrote:I don't personally know much about common core, but all of the teachers that I know are opposed to common core. They say that the process of teaching math is a long-winded way of teaching math. More steps are involved to get to the same answer as before.
That's pretty much all I know, besides the math problem that was going around facebook for a while. It did seem like more steps were being added.....
It is probably easy enough if you are starting with it from Kindergarten, but harder to follow if you are in a higher grade. Just my guess.


What you are describing has absolutely nothing to do with common core. CC does not dictate the methods of teaching any subject; it only sets the standards for what concepts and skills students should have at specific grade levels. For example (hypothetical only, I don't know the actual standard), long division should be mastered by 4th grade, algebra by 8th grade...etc. There more detailed concepts than that but this is the general idea. All decisions regarding teaching methods are done at the local and state level. Of course there are all sorts of teaching think tanks and focus groups at every level, but each state has complete control over how math is taught. They typically allow some level of variation at the local level.

So I would encourage you to go back to those teachers and ask them very specifically where the methods they use were developed and who made the decision to use them. I also have personal experience in this. My wife was a teacher for 12 years while we lived in Florida. Every few years a new hot shot education "expert" from Tallahassee who would produce a new and snazzy teaching methodology for some subject and it would mesmerize the state school administrators. These administrators would typically muscle local school boards into adopting the new methods, despite frequent push back by the actual teachers. Of course the new methods were always accompanied by new materials that the schools had to purchase, so it's my contention that this was nothing but recurring business for opportunists. As I said, this was Florida, a state run entirely by Republicans. So please forgive me when I reject these erroneous claims that CC represents the federal government telling local schools how to teach math as nothing more than Trumped up lies.

And by the way, the CC standards act as a floor, not a ceiling. So if any school is able to install higher standards, that's all the better.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
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Re: Common Core

Postby Stacie Cook » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:17 am

Yes, it was my understanding that common core is decided by each state. I don't believe Indiana is a common core state.
So true about cc standards as a floor and not a ceiling.
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Re: Common Core

Postby Aaron » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:08 pm

spongebob wrote: I also have personal experience in this. My wife was a teacher for 12 years while we lived in Florida. Every few years a new hot shot education "expert" from Tallahassee who would produce a new and snazzy teaching methodology for some subject and it would mesmerize the state school administrators. These administrators would typically muscle local school boards into adopting the new methods, despite frequent push back by the actual teachers. Of course the new methods were always accompanied by new materials that the schools had to purchase, so it's my contention that this was nothing but recurring business for opportunists.

My dad is a teacher and this sounds exactly like the kinds of things he complains about too. Interesting.
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Re: Common Core

Postby spongebob » Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:33 am

Stacie Cook wrote:Yes, it was my understanding that common core is decided by each state. I don't believe Indiana is a common core state.
So true about cc standards as a floor and not a ceiling.


I'm not sure what you're saying here. Each state can decide if it will adopt CC standards or not; that is true. I'm not sure what federal perks that gets a state but I assume it comes with some level of federal funding. Almost all states initially accepted the CC standards but several have dropped it in the last few years due to this misinformation and ultra-conservative meddling.

One additional thing I failed to mention before is standardized testing. CC also introduced a national standardized test so that states could evaluate the performance of their students on a national level. All states do this on a state level as well but those state tests were not standardized across the country, so a high score in one state could equate to a low score in another state, unlike tests like the ACT and SAT, which are national college admission tests.
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones.
~Bertrand Russell

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